[Tango-L] World Class tango dancers....

Tue Jul 17 20:44:56 EDT 2007

Of all postings to this list this posting by Nina is
the most nonsensical
and offensive.  

Nina is not only arrogant but also misinformed about
the history of the
dance.  Little does she know about the history of the
dance.  That the
Argentines on the turn of the last century condemned
Tango (and disowning
it)and the French welcomed with open arms.   That the
Tango is not an
Argentine product, but the product of fusion between
afro-Caribbean and
European rhythms.   That in an era of increasing
global awareness any claims
to sole cultural ownership over any practice is silly
and infantile.

Nina statement is a disservice to all of the great
masters.  It is a
disservice to all of the hard working folks attempting
to promote tango as
an universal art form.

Cheers,
Amaury   

-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu
[mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
Clif Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:21 PM
To: tango-l at mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] World Class tango dancers....

Ummmm, let me see how I can reply to this.... ...
B.... S.... 
I can't remember where I have seen more arrogance than
on this list.
And people say people from the US are arrogant. We
have a long way to go to
catch up with this steaming pile.

Oops, sorry, was that arrogant?
CAD3 
-----Original Message-----
From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu
[mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
Nina Pesochinsky
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:15 PM
To: tango-l at mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] World Class tango dancers....

Deby,

I just want to clarify that we are not talking about
the same 
things.  You are talking about Brazil, Mexico, San
Francisco, i.e. 
places that belong to the world.

I am talking about the world of Argentine tango.  The
world of 
Argentine tango begins and ends in Argentina.  If it
exits, it 
becomes some other world, like the geographic world. 
The geographic 
world-class is too low of a standard of dancing.  The
Argentine 
world-class is the real thing.

So, in terms of the world-class dancer, with the world
beginning and 
ending in Argentina, no other geographic place can
produce one.

So one can go to Argentina, into the world of tango
that is, and try 
to become a world-class dancer there even if they were
not born 
Argentine.  And it still will not happen because of
that tiny blemish 
of the wrong origin.

The bottom line is that in order to be considered a
true world-class 
dancer, one must be hailed to be so by the Argentines 
themselves.  And if you are not Argneitne, that will
never 
happen.  Argentines are fanatical nationalists.

Warmest regards,

Nina

At 05:38 PM 7/17/2007, Deby Novitz wrote:
>Nino wrote:
>
>If you are not Argentine, you cannot be a world-class
tango
>dancer and might as well forget about it because the
world of tango,
>with all the "classy" dancing,  begins and ends in
Argentina.:)  This
>is an absolute.
>
>
>Well Nina, you might want to rethink what you have
written.  Junior
>Cervila,  he is in my opinion an excellent dancer and
>from..........Brasil.  The same for Paulo Araujo.  In
NYC there is Angel
>Clemente Garcia, one of the best ..... and a Mexican.
 There are people
>from other places as well that are wonderful dancers.
>
>I have been dragged and pushed around the floor like
a dust mop by
>several Argentine name brands who without a
choreographed dance could
>not lead their way out of a dark cave with 1000 lit
torches.  There are
>many Argentines who cannot dance gracefully or
elegantly.  Sometimes I
>watch them and I cannot for the life of me figure out
what people think
>is so great about them other than they speak English,
charge lots of
>money, and are arrogant, therefore, they must be
good.
>
>Now another myth....there are not a million wonder
dancers here.  It is
>all relative.  When I came here in 2000 I thought
each and everyone of
>them was wonderful, incredible.  I marveled at what I
thought was
>dancing to the music.  Now I live and dance here and
I can tell you,
>that here is no better here than there.  (Wherever
there is) There are
>maybe less than 10 men I want to dance with.  Here is
the
>difference...we have more dancers, more places to
dance.  So it might
>seem like there are lots more good dancers.  It is
all relative.  If you
>live in Iowa then San Francisco seems like Mecca.  I
lived in San
>Francisco and as I commuted to Buenos Aires, San
Francisco did not seem
>much like Mecca to me.  The percentages of good
dancers "should" be
>higher when there are more dancers....because there
are more dancers.
>
>Dancing with bad dancers.  I don't do it.  Not
knowingly.  The best
>dancers here male and female sit until they want to
dance.  When the
>music is right, when there is someone to dance with. 
Once this
>gentleman I know came into the milonga. He came to
get me to dance to a
>tanda.  He told me that I was going to be his only
tanda of the evening
>and then he was going to leave.  His reason was the
women left him
>uninspired.  Maybe this sounds harsh, but this is not
unusual here.  One
>night we went to 3 milongas because we as women were
uninspired.  We
>were trying to find out where the men were to dance
with.  We ended up
>drinking champagne in Gricel.
>
>What happens when I accept a dance with a man who is
not that good.    I
>dance with him if he is a nice guy.  It is not his
fault we both made a
>mistake.  If he is completely undanceable, at least
for me.  I have no
>choice but to end the dance.  To walk off the floor
here is an insult to
>one of the parties.  Usually it is a verguenza for
the man, not me.
>Here you need to earn the right to walk off the
floor.  I can do it, but
>I do not like to.  Not unless the man is a total
jerk, or he is hurting
>me with his horrible dancing.  How do I dance with
them?  I concentrate
>very hard on my balance and axis to stay upright, and
many times I have
>to look at the floor because there is no lead.  Even
more so I do not
>dance close embrace if the dancer is really poor. 
Then I would really
>be dragged around.  If the man is from the U.S. and
used to dancing
>patterns, I have to watch his feet.  I no longer live
in the U.S. and
>therefore do not know what patterns are now being
taught, so I have to
>figure out the steps before they happen.
>
>The point is that tango is tango.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>Tango-L at mit.edu
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