[Tango-L] What is tango? [Tango Clasico]

[Korey Ireland]

Thanks Alexis,
I enjoy your clarity and open mindedness.

Thanks also to Ron for provoking me consider another perspective.

I wonder what would happen if we all put as much time into improving  
and enjoying our dance as we did into defending/classifying/debating?   
Would it produce a new "species of dance"?  Or just a bunch of people  
enjoying and refining something they love to do, side by side with as  
much personal differentiation as the setting allows....

I will confess off the record that I actually danced several ocho  
cortados tonight at practica X, dancing in close embrace to D'Arienzo  
with an exquisite Argentine follower while the couple next to us was  
doing soltadas and over-turned ganchos.  (There are occasionally bumps  
in this setting where styles from several continents and generations  
meet, but on the whole its good humored, and good dancing of any style  
is generally respected....)
While chatting between songs my partner expressed to me that her  
favorite thing was to dance in a comfy close embrace but with the  
dynamics of the younger dancers...sounds like we're still a long way  
from distinctly different species...or perhaps we have a new, new  
thing, should we call it NuevoClassico? (i jest, in fact I'm happy to  
just call it tango.)

One more curious example:  Tango Brujo, generally considered a Nuevo  
school, is doing an ongoing series with their Thursday practica where  
they are inviting milongueros to come and share their perspective with  
the younger dancers.  The idea being that there is much commonality,  
and much to be learned from the experience of others.  This week the  
guest is rumored to be Carlitos Perez, who runs the famous Villa  
Urquiza practica at Sunderland.  How delightful, to have Perez and  
Gaston and Mariela fusing and exchanging movements and styles...the  
oldest and the newest in the same space.

Please understand, I don't mean to pick a fight or criticize the well  
formed opinions of others but to share a different perspective and  
some evidence of a tolerance for (or even mixing of ) different styles  
here in Buenos Aires (certainly we can find the same in the US and  
Europe).  BsAs is the sort of scene where you can find examples to  
support almost any view which just suggests to me that there is not  
much point in making definitions around it.  The more interesting  
question to me is what do we gain by separating generations, styles,  
and priorities.  Are we in fact enriched by homogeny?  Certainly on a  
species level diversity is advantageous, but I'd contend there's a  
healthy place for diversity even in the milonga or practica.  I'm not  
a big proponent of segregation by style.  I'd prefer to be confronted  
by, and learn to appreciate the priorities of other dancers.  In the  
end I hope this will have a positive influence on the way I enjoy the  
dance.

-Korey

On Dec 11, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Alexis Cousein wrote:

> Tango Society of Central Illinois wrote:
>> Korey,
>> What you don't generally see at Buenos Aires milongas are dancers  
>> dancing
>> Tango Nuevo. If elements characteristic of Tango Nuevo (e.g.,  
>> volcadas,
>> colgadas, various forms of ganchos and boleos) are seen, it is  
>> usually out
>> of place and frowned on by porten~os.
>
> Porteños don't have to defend an orthodoxy with the sword, unlike some
> members of the list, and can be surprisingly tolerant.
>
> What they aren't tolerating is someone bothering others.
>
> Sometimes, if someone is merely embarassing himself a bit too much  
> but not
> really bothering others, they'll gently nudge them, and out
> of the kindness of their heart to watch and learn, but that's very
> different from the arguments about heresy we keep on hearing here.
>
>> I have seen some nuevo dancers kick
>> bottles off tabletops in Plaza Bohemia.
>
> Fallacy of insufficient sample:
>
> This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a  
> population based on a sample that is not large enough. It has the  
> following form:
>
>   1. Sample S, which is too small, is taken from population P.
>   2. Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S.
>
> [The claim also contains elements of three other fallacies, but I'll  
> leave
> that as an exercise for the reader.]
>
> Note that I'm not saying it's OK to kick bottles off tabletops. That  
> doesn't
> mean other things (which do not kick bottles off tables nor hinder
> other dancers) can't fit.
>
> Context is everything when you're going to dance something. Exercise  
> your
> judgement, tune your soul to the local TONE, and you'll be fine.
>
> It's not necessary to compile a list of orthodox and heretical moves  
> (after
> having tried to reconcile the hundreds of conflciting views about what
> is heretical and what is not -- thankfully, in Argentine tango
> there is no Great Oracle with tablets of stone to decide that) and
> memorise them before you put a foot on the dance floor, though.
>
> To discuss these things as if we were living in Plato's world of  
> ideals
> is a futile exercise.
>
>> The roots or Tango Nuevo can be seen in movements like ochos and  
>> giros and
>> the cruzada shared with Tango Clasico. However, as an experimental  
>> dance
>> Tango Nuevo has evolved to be quite different than Tango Clasico,
>
> As I said in another post, I do not believe in the existence of  
> those two
> as rigid and absolute classifications. They're not two species yet,  
> not until
> guardian angels of orthodoxy wielding firey swords manage to  
> separate the
> "chaff" from the "weat" and eliminate all cross-pollinations (what  
> do we do
> with the persons of mixed race? "Purify" them, or cast them into the  
> abyss?).
>
> A browsing through some of the historical literature would allow you  
> to
> see that there have always been discussions about orthodoxy,  
> heterodoxy
> and heresy, even within what you would these days undoubtedly classify
> as Tango Clasico.
>
> It's good. It's proof that it's a living dance, just as English is a  
> living
> language.
>
> -- 
> Alexis Cousein                                  al at sgi.com
> Senior Systems Engineer/Solutions Architect     SGI/Silicon Graphics
> --
> <If I have seen further, it is by standing on reference manuals>
>
>