[Tango-L] Practice can be a waste too.

Wed Aug 1 22:14:28 EDT 2007

>>>>
  Also technical expertise implies that one can dance to the music and with grace
  >>>
If you insist on using correct terms to describe the right things, then the above does not make sense.

  Generally 'technique' encompasses physical skills like balance, axis, lead, groundedness etc etc....If you club everything under 'technique' ,  it doesn't help...i believe.

  We always try to compensate for what we lack with one things with another, it is our nature: connection for lack elegance, technique for lack of musicality etc etc.....Ofcourse there are many who have it all.

  It is not exageration if we say there are  dancers in US with good technique but poor musicality, their number is significant. 

  no music = No dance.

  But I agree, they must have something...or else women will not dance with them.

  IL

WHITE 95 R <white95r at hotmail.com> wrote:
  Hi Trini,

I appreciate your feedback. I too had some nice conversations, albeit short, 
with Rodolfo & Maria Cieri before Rodolfo's death. BTW, I really admired 
their dancing. Rodolfo was a really fine dancer with impeccable technique 
and wonderful sense of musicality. As you probably know, I'm a native 
Spanish speaker so I have had many wonderful chats with many great Argentine 
tango dancers. Actually, since I'm not so far removed from some of their 
generations, I actually have memories of the tango music when it was played 
in the radio and also I remember my parents and other grown-ups dancing the 
tango (it was like the early tango as taught by Eduardo and Gloria 
Arquimbau).

Anyway, it is a running joke among teachers that they don't give credit to 
their teachers. From talking with most of them you get the idea that they 
were all self-taught (-; The truth is that many of them learned tango from 
other dancers. Granted, they are innovators and artists in their own right 
and they invented or discovered many a new move or step. The tango has been 
in the process of emerging and changing since it's beginnings way back then. 
Many of the best dancers of today learned from their parents who were 
themselves great dancers. Many others were trained dancers of folkloric 
groups or modern dance, who learned tango from excellent instructors.

I have it from several credible sources that the early tango was basically a 
grapevine step (the molinete or giro) which remains to this day as the basic 
code of the tango. Both partners danced the same way mirroring each other 
and danced sideways. There was no line of dance. I'm sure it was easier to 
learn by watching and dancing... Later the tango evolved to what it is like 
today. It would be very difficult, specially for a guy to just watch modern 
salon tango and learn all it's intricacies of lead and follow, plus all the 
steps, LOD, musicality, etc. The truth is that a few people with special 
talent can learn and even create dance steps and moves with ease. But even 
they have some sort of instruction. Often it is high caliber instruction.

I began to dance regularly and often many years ago. I remember that all the 
couple dances were challenging to learn and more difficult to become skilled 
at them. Even the folk dances which are much easier to do present challenges 
to many people. There are numbers of them who can't even contra dance or 
dance old time square dances very well after doing it for years. One of the 
things we did in Atlanta in the contra dances was to institute instruction 
for the new comers...... Yes, even folk dances require instruction in order 
to learn. I've taught swing in the past and I've found that even with lots 
of instruction and patience, many people have a very hard time learning even 
the most basic thing, such as the 1,2 rock step... Even merengue is super 
challenging to many folks. Salsa is all but impossible to pick up by 
watching. Tango is no different, it's a specialized dance with it's own set 
of rules and structures. Although tango allows more "faking" of the dance 
(since many people totally ignore the music), it's still a difficult dance 
to get master or even to gain a modicum of proficiency.

I think I understand who these "technical experts" are. I think we are 
talking about people who have managed to mimic tango movements somewhat 
successfully, but have not learned to dance. There are some of them. But 
personally, I think that the tango technique includes the ability to lead 
and follow with skill and smoothness. Also technical expertise implies that 
one can dance to the music and with grace. Otherwise, I don't think that a 
person is technically proficient. There are a few dancers out there that 
appear to be quite good and yet leave one thinking that there is something 
missing... But I think that these are a very small minority. Hardly worth 
the huge discussions generated in these forums. My goodness, from the volume 
of discussions about these folks, one could think that a huge percentage of 
tango dancers are out there with perfect technical skills and no feeling 
whatsoever (-;

With best regards,

Manuel

P.S.
It would have been great if you could have joined us for the G&G event. We 
had a wonderful time. The workshops and the milongas were exceptionally 
good. The level of dancing was just awesome. We even had genuine Argentine 
food at the milongas (5 milongas in 4 days). We had authentic media lunas, 
facturas, dulce de leche, jamon y queso, etc. At the farewell milonga we 
even had a genuine asado with the authentic style cuts of beef, high quality 
Uruguayan chorizo, salads, freshly baked bread, milhojas cake, wine, etc. 
The participants were just great. Could not ask for a better bunch of tango 
dancers and all around great people. I'll contact you when another event 
like this takes place.

visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com

>From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" 

>To: Tango-L 
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Practice can be a waste too.
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 08:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi Manuel
>
>Nice post and your suggestion of using words more precisely
>stands on its own merits. I had a few thoughts on some
>topics you touched on.
>
> > I've yet to see a single guy just "go dancing" and learn
> > to dance tango (or any other partner dance). Of course, >
>this depends on your definition of learning a dance >versus
>my understanding of being able to dance a >particular
>partner dance......
>
>I think you’re right about this regarding the current
>generation of tango dancers. Even in earlier generations,
>there was some instruction or practica going on, though I
>get the sense that it was more playful than what we do now.
> I’d like to think that perhaps one day the tango scene
>will regain its former strength and parents will be
>teaching their kids, and a young man or woman can "just go
>dancing" and not have to do all of the work many of us are
>doing today. Some work, surely, but hopefully they will
>have an easier time.
>
>A few years ago I asked Maria Cieri (widow of Rudolfo
>Cieri) about how they learned. They both started at around
>6-7 with their parents. After they wed (in their early
>teens), they only danced with each other or with friends.
>Our Spanish/French and her English wasn’t good enough to
>get the whole details, but she talked about dancing to
>Pugliese every Friday night for 5 years. Then they stopped
>dancing because of the junta, during which she said people
>didn’t feel like dancing, except at weddings. Twenty years
>later, tango revives and they end up doing a performance
>for the queen of England. Someone else may know more of
>their history than I do, but what struck me was "5 years".
>That’s it?! 5 years! And they danced beautifully. I think
>we're at least a generation from that.
>
>What I have noticed is a greater interest by young men in
>learning to dance compared to the men of my generation who
>grew up with John Wayne and war movies on afterschool
>television. Perhaps it is all of the videos shown today
>with male singers who also dance. I think that bodes well
>for all social dances.
>
>
> > Another oximoronic concept is the one that suggests that
> > there are dancers out there with "all the technique" (I
>presume they've mastered the technique) and yet they can't
>dance tango...... >
>
>Respectfully,
> >
> > Manuel
> >
>
>I interpret those discussions to be about dancers who are
>good technically but don’t convey the feeling of tango, the
>warmth, the connection. Or perhaps they do not interpret
>the music successfully. I’m not sure one could place these
>attributes under “technique”.
>
>Happy tangos,
>Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>P.S. Sorry I missed G&G in Atlanta. I hope you have them
>back again.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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