[Tango-L] Can somebody shed some light on the subject

Tue Apr 3 12:39:52 EDT 2007

Dani,

You seem to keep responding to the topics that 
you say do not interest you.  I would never 
suggest getting off the list because I believe 
that it would bring drastic changes, such as 
complete and absolute boredom, that would be too 
difficult to manage :-).  But it sounds like the 
majority of topics that people write about 
torment you greatly.  Is there some other way to 
manage the discomfort than complain about the topics of the conversation?

Dani's comments bring another questions - what is 
it that contributes to people's discomfort when 
the discomfort of others becomes obvious?  Why 
should it bother any of us if someone has not 
learned to use cabeceo or is not comfortable with 
it, or just wants to talk about it?

I think that cabeceo is a hot topic in cultures 
where people do not walk on the streets and do 
not make frequent eye contact with 
strangers.  Eye contact is scary for people when 
it is deemed to be too personal.  I believe that 
American culture is not comfortable with eye 
contact.  People are just trying to find their 
way with it in tango when they are discussing it on the list.

Also, the unspoken often makes people 
uncomfortable.  Eye contact goes beyond the 
cognitive.  That is scary in the cultures where 
cognitive abilities (closely linked to language) are highly prized.

Warm regards to all,

Nina

At 10:20 AM 4/3/2007, Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>tangosmith speaks a lot of sense but, cabaceo AGAIN...???!
>
>I refer you all to a past post of mine (qv 
>pasted below) in which I indicated  that it's 
>not some kind of AT secret weapon... it's simply 
>a common anthropological 'nuance' observed even in the Great Apes!
>
>To make some sort of senseless song-and-dance of 
>'it' (if 'it' can be referred to as 'it'!) is 
>exactly that... nonsense. You don't tip your 
>head at a precisely measured angle, you don't 
>screw up your eyes in some weirdo way... you 
>simply ask someone to dance from afar using your 
>normal anthropological means inherent in all of 
>us. i.e. you raise your eyebrows and nod at the 
>person. This is observed in ALL cultures and 
>soociety. As I've said, it's normal human 
>nature. What do you do to get someones attention 
>from across the street without shouting? 
>Exactly! You nod at them and raise your 
>eyebrows! When you pass an acquaintance with 
>whom you're not on full friendship terms, what 
>do you do? Exactly! You nod at them and raise 
>your eyebrows in acknowledgement of their presence!
>
>If you go to a milonga in BsAs and you start 
>screwing up your eyes and tipping your head in 
>precesely measured ways and contorting your face 
>because you think that there is some secret 
>Argentine code you must follow... what happens? 
>Easy! They'll drop a net on you and cart you off to the funny farm!
>
>Give it a rest... don't analyse.
>
>Here's (one of) my previous posting(s):
>
>"I'm sick to death of hearing all the bleating about this 'Cabaceo' nonsense.
>People talk about "learning it"...?????! 
>Learning WHAT?!... learning to do what we all do 
>naturally and amthropologically every day of our 
>lives? i.e. giving a nonchalent acknowledgement 
>of an acquaintance's presence as we happen 
>(often subconsciously) to raise our eyebrows 
>and/or giving a slight nod of the head on 
>noticing them casually walking by on the other 
>side of the street...??? Come on, this is all we're talking about.
>There is no secret weapon of tango destruction at work here.
>Stop making a big ridiculous fuss over what 
>amounts to exactly... and I mean EXACTLY... the 
>same as casual non-verbal acknowledgement.
>Give it a break, eh?"
>
>Cheers
>
>Dani
>http://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "tangosmith at cox.net" <tangosmith at cox.net>
>To: tango-l at mit.edu
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 April, 2007 4:47:25 PM
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Can somebody shed some light on the subject
>
>
>It’s an interesting question of whether the chances are better for women to
>get asked to dance if they sit alone, together, or in a mixed group, which
>is often as not dependent on the fragility of the egos of the males in
>attendance.  As already noted, in North America women who sit together
>frequently form a group and start talking with each other.  My experience
>from the milongas in BsAs is that women, even when they are sitting
>closely, often have very limited conversation with other women.  It’s
>simply a cultural difference.  If we tried to usher men and women to
>opposite sides in N.A., as one person suggested, I think we would also have
>to instruct the women to refrain from socializing too much with the other
>women!  Somehow, I just don’t think imposing this much Argentine cultural
>would work very well.
>
>Regarding the cabeceo, it certainly isn’t exclusive to the culture of
>Argentine milongas.  The nonverbal exchange of “glances across the room”
>can be found in some form at virtually all social gatherings to catch
>someone’s attention, to show discrete interest.  It just isn’t quite as
>institutionalized as it is in the milongas of BsAs.
>
>Much of the interest in doing the cabeceo at N.A. milongas seems related to
>our struggle over how “authentic” our tango must be.  Some apparently
>believe that it is not enough to try to be “authentic” in the movements of
>the dance, but that we must also attempt to somehow recreate the cultural
>environment.  We can push this not just to the point of being impractical,
>but also to point where it becomes absurb.  If we expect the nonverbal
>cabeceo to become the standard method of asking someone to dance at a North
>American milonga, perhaps we could also begin promoting having our verbal
>conversations in Lunfardo, just to be authentic!
>
>To me, the true authentic tango lies in that intimate connection that
>occurs between two people on the piso, and that moment can transcend
>cultural differences.  Certainly it can occur without speaking the same
>language as our partner, with the lights high or low, anywhere in the
>world.  I have asked partners to dance and have been asked, I have nodded
>and been nodded at.  Neither approach has seemed to have absolutely any
>impact on predicting the possibility of that magical moment.  How any two
>partners meet, how they manage to end up in that intimate embrace, the
>depth of her neckline and the height of her heels, all become irrelevant
>once the music starts.
>
>When we come to dance the tango, we are preparing to engage in a very
>intimate and passionate activity.  That is what makes tango special.  The
>point of all of the codes and the formality of the environment is to
>establish a “safe” zone where we can feel confident to surrender ourselves
>to our partner and the music.  If we try to force a cultural environment
>that doesn’t fit the social dynamics of the group, we risk destroying that
>very essential feeling of comfort necessary for finding, in my opinion, the
>authentic tango.
>
>W.B.Smith
>
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