[Tango-L] The call to tango, and "gender polarization"

[Nina Pesochinsky]

Hi, David,

Nice little treatise.  Kudos!  I like everything that Joseph Campbell wrote.

The Jungian psychology may be most useful for the purposes of tango 
in terms of the archetypes.  If you look at the basic four archetypes 
that everyone shares - the child, the saboteur, the prostitute and 
the victim.- it can be quite clear, on a case-by-case basis, which 
archetype in its shadow or light form is at play at any given moment.

As far as my own approach to tango goes, since David had mentioned 
it, all I can do is quote a line from the movie "Raising Arizona", 
that 'it is God's own private secret".

I hope that the Flan is good and that all the beauties and the beasts 
at the party don't polish it off before I get there.  And, yes, it is 
all a dream.  I hope to wake up dead at the end of it.

Warmest regards to everyone,

Nina




At 05:36 PM 9/30/2006, you wrote:
>Ok first, I am going to make a couple of comments then ask that the thread
>focus to Tango.
>
>Thank you Nina, and yes I trust your definition of Jung's work. You are
>studying this and have a much more in depth knowledge of his work with in
>this Psychological discipline than I do.
>
>I believe we are approaching the same thing from totally different avenues.
>With in your approach, what Jung brought to the forefront with dream work,
>collective conciseness, etc. is amazing. It has helped not only
>Psychological fields but other like fields as well. With in these fields
>this is cutting edge information and allows these fields to develop
>approaches, theory's, teaching methods, and advancements to helping people
>that are phenomenal. I believe you could give a much more eloquent
>description of what these aspects are and their ramifications.
>
> >From my experience it would be an almost opposite approach. The same thing
>happening in Jung's work is the same thing Shamans, medicine men and women,
>Yogi's, mystics, etc. have been working with since time immortal. More than
>likely if you were to sit down with a competent aboriginal shaman to talk
>about dream work (as long as both either can speak the same verbal language
>or have a good translator). My guess is you both would have to tailor how
>you were speaking about this subject, and would be talking about different
>aspects of dreams. But when it comes down to it, would be talking about the
>same thing. Then the conversation gets really fun and the laughter, crying
>and amazement ensues.
>This would be the same type of situation of talking with a Buddhist about
>the Bardo states, a Christian mystic about Gnostics, a Rabbi about Qabalah,
>a native american (north and south) Medicine man or woman about the
>relationship of totem animals. These are just a fraction of examples in the
>world.
>
>With the work Joseph Campbell did, absolutely monumental! Not only the
>famous interview he did with Bill Moyers as an example. Have you seen this
>guy lecture, there are a number of videos out there, and well worth watching
>at least a couple. I remember seeing the original Star wars movie when it
>first came out and just about any of the people I knew who saw this movie
>already knew Luke would make the shot (this is Hollywood you know). What got
>our attention was the act of trusting himself, his intuition and the way he
>was going to make the shot. Now this is cool stuff!!! Even though our
>approaches are different, your current education is different than mine, I
>believe we could probably agree on this one point. So given this view, and
>the shortest distance between two points factor. It would seem all paths are
>pretty much on the same playing field. So it comes down to someone making a
>choice for them selves which path they will walk down. Regardless if one
>sits in the wilderness with a shaman, sits on a pillow being lead through
>zazen meditation, or sits in an office with a Jungian analyst (unless of
>course a person is dangerously psychotic, then it is a good thing the choice
>will be made for that person, and get that parson meds now). This very thing
>would be applicable to the way Nina teaches and the way I teach of which I
>am sure we both would have no problem waking the sleeping guy a couple of
>emails back. Our approach might be different but believe we have one or two
>tools in our teacher's toy box that are similar.
>
>For the codes with in Tango, they are simple. The approach I take is to step
>in with my own codes that work very well. Then make a choice if I stand firm
>or adjust my own codes to where I find my self and earn my way. I think the
>only mixed (single/couple) milonga in BSAS I found was at Gricel on a Friday
>night, La Divina and La Marshal. So are the codes new? yes and no. Are the
>codes old? well,,, yes and no. If you expect that the codes will be handed
>to someone on a silver platter arbitrarily and just because. I am with Nina
>on this. However if you want to know if the platter is real or illusion (the
>same with the codes). Then you have the hero's journey opening up in front
>of you (it only takes one step). To add one quote from Joseph Campbell.
>
>"In the absence of an effective general mythology, each of us has his
>private, unrecognized, rudimentary, yet secretly potent pantheon of dream.
>The latest incarnation of Oedipus, the continued romance of Beauty and the
>Beast, stand this afternoon on the corner of Forty-second Street and Fifth
>Avenue, waiting for the traffic light to change.
>--Joseph Campbell"
>
>Ahh, Harken. I have Flan to attend to that will be taken to a tango party
>this evening.
>I would like to ask Nina if she has any thoughts. Then ask the subject be
>focused in on Argentine Tango.
>But Nina one question, what we have been writing here. Was this all not a
>nice dream.
>Take care, have nice dances tonight, the Flan smells good.
>David Hodgson
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tango-l-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
>Nina Pesochinsky
>Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:53 PM
>To: TANGO-L at mit.edu
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The call to tango, and "gender polarization"
>
>David,
>
>You wrote:
>
>What I understand about Carl Jung is that he took some concepts that
> >have been around for a very long time. Added some new names and ways of
> >looking at them, in a really beautiful and effective way. Then made it
> >palatable and sale able to the intellectual community. Helping with the
> >evolution of what we know as modern psychology (for as humans evolve, the
> >concepts, ideals and explanations change as well).
>
>
>Just a tiny correction... Carl Jung, mostly through dream analysis,
>but also through some other work, has presented us with a concept of
>the collective unconscious.  The implications of his work have been
>so profound, that one of the most effective, not ot mention
>interesting and extremely useful, instruments of assessment (MBPI)
>has been  based on his typology of personality.  This is not to
>mention the much more recent, monumental work of Joseph Campbell, as
>well as "The Star Wars", which is "the hero's journey" at its core in
>Jungian terms. (Where would we be without "The Star Wars"?!)
>
>The codes and traditions of tango are very, very simple.  They serve
>a practical purpose - they protect people's dignity and emotions, and
>provide guidelines of conduct in a social situations that could
>potentially be uncomfortable.
>
>Old or not, the codes of conduct have to serve a practical purpose,
>or they need to be changed.  One example of a situation where the new
>codes must emerge is for the milongas where both single dancers and
>couples mix.  I believe that such milongas exists only outside of
>Argentina.  Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never
>encountered such milongas in Buenos Aires, with an exception of the
>artificial milongas created for festivals.
>
>In this case, there seem to be no old codes of behavior that can be
>applied.  Again, please correct me if I am wrong.  And yet clear
>codes of conduct are much needed.  Common sense can provide some
>guidance, but people often do not share much of the common sense, and
>there really is nothing like that anyway because there is nothing
>common about it, but you know what I mean!
>
>Warmest regards to every one,
>
>Nina
>
>
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