[Tango-L] Direction: Open & Crossed & Open & Closed

[Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)]

Hi Huck,

In response to your points...

1. "Open-side" etc.
Yes, you are perfectly correct. And nevertheless, we've got duplicate 
terms. I use them sometimes myself, but my point is that I'd like 
something better (w/o duplication, for clarity's sake), and I'm 
enlisting everyone in the search.

2. The "salida"
Yes, you're using the Spanish term more correctly. I'm using it to mean 
8-count basic, which I take to be entirely in parallel system, and will 
henceforth switch to the abbreviation 8CB or "basic 8" when referring to 
that particular thing.

3. "Open steps"
Well, if I have to stop, pivot, and alter the position, then what the 
hell kind of system is that? And what does it call those moves? And is 
this where that moronic two-foot colgada came from?

An "open" step should be one that brings one or both dancers into a 
position that is clearly described by the word "open." If my partner is 
directly in front of me, and walks directly at me while I walk directly 
backward, and we're in parallel system, then we're already facing each 
other. (8CB #1, to put it simply.) If I pause the step mid-weight-shift, 
then we have to do a colgada in order to "face each other," as that 
analysis would have it. Sure, _then_ it looks like an "open step" all 
right, but it's not the step we took, and we had to do all these extra 
moves to get there.

And if we twist the other way (why shouldn't we?), we get a 
"double-cross-step" pretzel.

This kind of analysis distorts all data until the data matches its cute 
little reductive cubby-holes. It can be a handy rule-of-thumb, but it 
doesn't hold up to inspection, or point the way to anything interesting.

And if an analysis can't tell the difference between #1 and #2 in the 
8CB, I'm sorry, but it's a fairly worthless analysis.

No?

Jake
DC


Huck Kennedy wrote:
> In two postings, Jake Spatz writes:
>   
>> I've heard one teacher use (on occasion) the terms "open-side" and 
>> "closed-side," to refer to those respective sides of the embrace. Those 
>> terms, however, are already used to describe the distance between the 
>> dancers, so they're not that suitable.
>>     
>
>      To quote a famous college football ex-coach and
> TV commentator, "Not so fast, my friend!"  "Open" and
> "closed" are used to describe distance between dancers,
> but not "open side of the embrace" and "closed side of
> the embrace," which you abbreviate here to "open-side"
> and "closed-side;" therefore, I see no confusion here
> whatsoever, especially when context is factored in, and
> would find these terms at least sometimes useful as
> directional terms both partners could use to avoid the
> "my left, your right" nuisance.  For instance, "We both
> take a sidestep towards the open side [of the embrace]"
> is both easier to remember and more elegant than "the
> leader takes a sidestep to the left while the follower
> takes one to the right (or was that right and left
> instead of left and right?  DOH!!)".  I realize you're
> probably looking for ways to describe far more complex
> nuevo moves, but hey, maybe this could at least be
> helpful for beginners.
>
>      Also, as someone else mentioned, in certain
> contexts the follower's perspective is always used.
> For example, if you add or subtract a step independent
> of your partner to go from parallel into crossed
> (or opposite feet into same feet if you prefer that
> terminology) and start walking forward on her left
> side on three tracks, you are said to be dancing on
> the left side, because you are on *her* left side.
> Similarly, in West Coast Swing, there are terms like
> "right-side pass with underarm turn" and "left-side
> pass," referring to which of her sides you are on
> when she zooms by in the slot.  Again, this may turn
> out to be of little use with respect to the more
> complicated moves I think you want to describe.
>
>   
>> As for the cross-steps in themselves... Usually the "cross" is taken to 
>> mean that the dancer crosses his or her own body (or standing leg). But 
>> this depends on the orientation of the partners and also on torso-hip 
>> dissociation. Step #1 of the salida
>>     
>
>      As an aside, I find terminology such as "step 1
> of the salida" to be virtually useless without prior
> definition, since different instructors use different
> numbering notations for what they consider to be the
> basic step.  You are using "salida" to mean the dreaded
> so-called "8-count basic," right? (apologies if I've
> misunderstood).  What people consider to be a "salida"
> also seems to vary.  I, for one, consider the salida
> to be just the one or two steps used to get underway.
> Sallying forth, or setting off, so to speak, which is
> the true meaning of "salida" in Spanish in this
> context.
>
>   
>> can be executed without variation by the follower, but if
>> I (leading) step to my left instead of straight back, she's
>> open; if I dodge right, she's crossed. If I do step straight 
>> back, she's NEITHER.
>>     
>
>      There's no such thing as "neither."  A person
> either takes an open step or a crossed step.  Now
> I don't know what kind of bizarre nuevo pretzel
> positions you wander into :)  but for normal intents
> and purposes, if you are in a reasonably standard
> open tango connection and take a step and want to
> analyze whether the step you just took was open or
> crossed, you need simply press the pause button (as
> it were) for a moment, pivot on both feet to face
> your partner head on (it helps if both can do this),
> and see where your legs end up after the pivot.  If
> you wind up standing there nonchalantly with your legs
> apart like a cool Elvis standing at ease in an Army
> uniform, you just took an open step.  If you wind up
> standing there with your legs in a big ol' tangled
> cross like some kind of dorky stork, you just took
> a crossed step.
>
> Huck
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