[Tango-L] Leading front ochos in close embrace

[steve pastor]

You most certainly can lead a forward ocho in "close embrace". And you most certainly don't have to use your arms, fingers, or hands. 
Google for an image of Susana Miller, and you will see that, if you take the term "apilado" seriously, there is plenty of room for the woman to step across herself in front of the man. If her center moves only as far as the man's center, her step will be a small one, and the man will not have to move his feet. The process could be repeated, but, why?
  My experience is that plenty of women dance "close embrace" by standing really close to the man, but don't share enough weight to feel the lead that comes from the joined torsos when enough weight is shared.
  At that point I guess arms, hands, and fingers may be considered an option. 
  Isn't there a cliche about how many people it takes to do tango?
   
  
Michael <tangomaniac at cavtel.net> wrote:
  Chris wrote about front ochos:

"In no way does a woman's front ocho necessitate the man to move backwards, or to travel at all. The man may move backwards, 
side-to-side, stay put or even move forward."

The man may stay put while the woman does front ochos. HMM. That must mean he uses his arms to pull and push the woman through the ochos. He can't keep his chest in front of the woman if he doesn't move while the woman does. Next, the man moves forward while the woman does forward ochos. That can only mean her front ocho is an overturned front ocho. I don't understand why Chris wants to make his partner work so hard.

"The only front ocho that necessitates the man to move backward is a class teacher's textbook "front ocho" which, in the interests of being "easy-to-learn" (for which read easy-to-fake-teach), has been /defined/ to require the man to move backward."

Consideration of others on the dance floor requires that the couple move and not hold up the line of dance. There are rude dancers who think for the price of admission they bought the entire dance floor and can do whatever they want, e.g. high boleos stationary front ochos, etc.

"Guys, try leading a forward ocho without travelling and you will discover it is ALL about posture, presence, centeredness and 
groundedness. Next to nothing about movement."

This is a contradiction. The man can't stay centered if the woman is doing front ochos.

"Do you recall the pitch hereabouts: "To dance tango you first must learn 
how to move"? Thing is, there are an infinite number of ways to move. 
And almost as many teachers who'd love you to pay them for workshops 
covering each and every one of them individually. Plus the videos too."

The quote of knowing how to move came from Daniel Trenner. Do you know more than Daniel Trenner?

"For free."

Yes, and I know how valuable your free advice is worth.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Sorry it took so long to respond
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