[Tango-L] Tango Roles-A learning moment comes before a teaching moment

Mon Jun 5 01:05:41 EDT 2006

Dear Sergio:

This is a list of self taught inexperienced teachers
and I am afraid they have no real interest in learning
about Argentine culture, unless they can re-sell it as
a US American product and call it Argentine.  Token
Argentines are accepted, but not if they contradict
the US American way of doing things.  I wish you luck
with them.

Thank you for the great insight into Argentine
culture, which explains why Argentine tango has
electricity and US American tango does not.  At this
point, I have pretty much lost my patience with the
people here on this list, and I will be posting much
less often now.  I am giving up on them.  I have had
my say, and I do not want to waste more of my time.
They don't "get it", do not want to "get it", and some
will never "get it".  I will avoid dancing with women
from the USA in the future who do not understand that
the man leads, the woman follows.  Women are all
powerful as women, but less powerful as men.  Everyone
have a great day.

Derik
d.rawson at rawsonweb.com

--- Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990 at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear friends of tango,
> 
>                     The premise is that in tango
> like in life there is a 
> masculine and a feminine role.
> 
> These roles are played when you dance or perhaps
> they are not evident in 
> your dancing.
> 
> I am going to translate some paragraphs from Nicole
> Nau's book "Tango, Un 
> Baile muy Portenio"
> the book was edited in November of 2000.
> 
> I could explain this according to my own experience
> but I am going to avoid 
> doing that due to all the problems we have been
> having before.
> 
> What follows is not antiquity, is today. It is not
> my saying this is the way 
> it is . is a German woman who came to Argentina to
> learn about its culture, 
> tango and life in genral.
> 
> Nicole Nau says in her book (page 159):
> 
> " Generally speaking the  world of the woman and
> that of the man are totally 
> separated in Argentina. This causes that the woman
> on one side is a total 
> enigma and a mystery for the man and the masculine
> universe is accepted by 
> the woman as something unknown and  a fortress to be
> respected.
> 
> Each one knows of his specific strength and that of
> the other sex avoiding 
> the fatal consequences of : comparing, competing or
> lack of trust.
> 
> To be "macho" in Argentina means to be a man with
> all his privileges but 
> also with all his obligations.
> 
> In public he is the chief. There is no discussion
> whatsoever in this 
> respect. Both know it. But "to be a man" in
> Argentina does not only means to 
> have a woman but also to be responsible for her, to
> protect her.
> 
> It is like having a treasure in this life, for which
> is worth to fight day 
> and night. A beautiful woman.
> In this fashion "machismo" in Argentina has no
> negative implication, quite 
> the opposite, to be macho is an excellent
> characteristic.
> 
> Women, specially in the tango world, organize all
> activities in such a way, 
> that the man be convinced that what is happening was
> according to his 
> desires. In this form the world will be in perfect
> order for him.  Men flirt 
> with women all the time  . He is pleased by a smile,
> or a special look: 
> something that suggests that he could have her if he
> wanted her. This is a 
> totally innocent attitude, there is no threat
> whatsoever.
> Both women and men know how to play this game
> without  burning their 
> fingers. Both feel the potentiality of something but
> they do not allow it to 
> happen.
> 
> Masculine (page. 163)
> 
> Masculine is synonymous with activity, greatness,
> vigor, strength.
> 
> A firm position on the floor, with legs somewhat
> apart constitutes a 
> masculine symbol, the same way as the decision and
> poise in stepping without 
> hesitation, to step with firmness. The man is the
> one that leads, if there 
> is a dialog with a woman is because he wishes it to
> happen and not because 
> he is supposed to do it. His position is solid and
> stable at any moment. He 
> is the center.
> 
> He dances with plenty of resources, he is ready for
> the unexpected. He never 
> gets close to his limits.
> He never abandons his central position. The woman
> brushes his body, he never 
> brushes hers.
> He embraces her waist, a sign that indicates
> possession.
> 
> Protection and domination at the same time. His
> torso erect, symbolizes the 
> power of the "Ego", dominion of space and security.
> His left hand closed 
> represents strength.
> 
> Feminine (page 164)
> 
> Feminine symbolizes reception, execution, smallness,
> weakness and 
> sensibility, harmony and equilibrium.  Her life at
> home, the emotional. 
> Growth where the man sees facts. She gets pregnant
> and gives life.
> 
> In tango she receives the man's conduction, her
> feminine aspect lays in the 
> quality of her movement.
> Women find with more ease elasticity and harmony in
> her movements than the 
> man does.
> 
> He is loaded with heavier cultural and social
> burdens.
> 
> The woman in tango leans on the man's body. She
> looks for her place like the 
> bird that looks for protection in his nest. The
> man's hand on her back 
> underlines the femininity of her forms. They seem
> more delicate in 
> comparison to the strength of the man's hand. The
> stronger his hand the more 
> fragile her body looks. Her movements are smooth and
> elastic.
> 
> The embrace is like a V with a closed side an an
> open side. The closed side 
> represents closeness and intimacy, the open side
> distance. One must learn to 
> notice and feel the differences within that
> embrace." end of quotation.
> 
> The same as in real life the man is poised, steps
> with decision, without 
> hesitation, he is strong and firm.  Guides and is
> prepared for the 
> unexpected, he improvises. he never gets close to
> his limits.
> He protects and respects the limits imposed by the
> woman to his embrace.
> 
> She is fragile, receptive, looks for protection in
> his embrace and in his 
> chest. She is smooth  and elastic, dances with
> harmony and beauty.
> 
> When you go to a gay milonga in B.A., 'La Marshall'
> for instance on 
> Wednesdays nights, you will see couples dancing very
> good tango formed by 
> two men : one of them leading, showing his masculine
> role the other one 
> following performing his feminine role.
> 
> Or a couple formed by two women : one dressed with a
> suit and wearing a tie 
> or dressed as a woman but leading in an obviously
> masculine way the other 
> one following with a very feminine attitude.
> 
> They dance very well and create a perfect tango full
> of feeling, emotion 
> with perfect communication and connection.
> 
> The result would be very different if both partners
> danced with a masculine 
> or a femine attitude.
> 
> In this last case the resultant tango would be not
> as full of feeling, 
> passion and connection  as before.  the one done by
> the two followeers will 
> be weak and the one done by the two leaders would
> look as having the 
> components of a fight.
> 
> The American friends I have that at present live in
> Argentina told me not to 
> talk about this subject because people abroad will
> not understand it does 
> not matter in what way you explained.
> 
> This is all I am going to say, if you understood
> fine if you did not 
> understand disregard what I just translated from
> Nicole's book.
> 
> Have a good day, Sergio.
> 
> PS. at no time I mean to be patronizing or trying to
> impose any rules to 
> your dancing or to your life.
> Please feel free to continue doing what pleases you
> the most. It is a shame 
> that I have to be so defensive in order to share my
> knowledge with you. To 
> all those that wrote to me I will answer in right
> time.
> 
>
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> 

Derik Rawson
d.rawson at rawsonweb.com
http://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson at cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson at haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb at yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb at compuserve.com
Paris, France

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