[Tango-L] The intellectual sophism of Tango

[El Mundo del Tango]

<<Julio Balmaceda a milonguero?  Bite your tongue.  He dances and teaches
tango, but he is not a milonguero, nor is Ernesto.>>

Both Ernesto and Julio consider themselves milongueros and with all due 
respect Deby, I believe them , not you.
I have seen Julio dancing non stop in milongas for hours  after teaching all 
day, perfectly on the music, on a square foot, perfectly on the line of 
dance, and with beginner partners, not only Corina or other pro ladies.
He does not dance the so called "milonguero style", of course, but he is a 
milonguero.

<<Facundo? .. Haven't seen him at a milonga in maybe 5
years.  >>
I know him well. He goes all the time. No to downtown though. It is a big 
city..you know that.....

<<You are not a milonguero simply because you are Argentine and  you dance 
tango or because you are old. >>
I forgot...I need approval from  Christopher, you and your friends....But 
all sarcasm aside, you are correct. I have never said  anything about being 
Argentine or old.
I said a "milonguero" is a social dancer, regardless of style danced.

Gabriel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Deby Novitz" <dnovitz at lavidacondeby.com>
To: <tango-l at mit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] The intellectual sophism of Tango


>I have always found it interesting to listen to people who don't know a
> thing about what they are talking about.  They propose to be an expert
> but have never had the experience or knowlege it takes to be a real
> expert.  I experienced it my 25 years in the computer business. It is an
> interesting parallel to find it here on this forum.  It is one thing to
> express an opinion, it is another to bully people into accepting that
> your opinion is the right one regardless of whether it is based on fact
> or your own emotions.  Funny thing about all those "computer guys" who
> told me I was wrong and didn't understand how to run a business...they
> all went bankrupt.
>
> It doesn't matter if you dance tango 4 years, 10, or 20.  It does not
> make you an expert.  It doesn't mean you know how to dance.  It just
> means you do.  The most knowledgeable dancers here in Buenos Aires would
> not waste their time with some of the posts I see here.  When I have
> translated for them, they are sometimes horrified, other times amused,
> and most times cannot understand what you guys are thinking when you
> write the things you do.  (Not all of you)
>
> For me those of you who have NEVER been here except in web experiences
> or vicariously through friends are the worst.  You impose your opinions
> on people as though you have the "inside scoop" of what it is like to
> dance here.  Then there are those who have been to CITA or on a tour and
> went to what we call the "tourist milongas".  Others who have come
> several times.  At least you have been here, even if it was in
> controlled settings.  I live here, I dance with one of the most highly
> regarded dancers and teachers, and I am still learning.  I am happy to
> give my experiences to people but I would never think to impose my
> opinions as the absolute end of conversation I am the best in the world
> because I live here and you don't.  Nooooo
>
> That being said here are my comments:
>
> Gabriel -  a milonguero is as stated by someone else - it is someone who
> lives eats and breathes tango.  They live for that one dance.  In days
> gone by the milonguero was a person who slept all day, didn't work, and
> chased women - but only those that had money.  Someone had to pay for
> those shoes.  Today's milonguero is updated a bit.  Many have danced
> their whole life, but they also worked.  When they retired they began to
> spend their times in the milongas.  Others like Roberto Dentone and Dany
> Garcia have been able to successfully teach and perform.  I would call
> neither lazy.  While both appreciate the female form and are generous
> with compliments, they also are not into chasing every woman around the
> milonga.  Their whole life revolves around tango.  I asked Roberto the
> last time he went to the movies and he said he couldn't remember, maybe
> 20 years ago.  When I told him I would take him, he wanted to know A)
> Why and B)Were we going to see a tango movie.
>
> To my knowledge I have NEVER heard the word milonguero used to describe
> anyone except as one who dances tango.  Before I danced tango I danced
> salsa. In the 10 years I danced salsa I NEVER heard any where in Latin
> America the word milonguero.  Salsero yes, milonguero no.  Milonguero
> comes from one who attends the milongas.  Why would some Colombian use
> it to describe a Colombian dancing salsa or vallanato.  You make
> absolutely no sense.
>
> I know many local stage dancers as well as social dancers.  Most stage
> dancers are horrible to dance with.  They have no lead, they are heavy.
> Why?  Because stage tango is choreographed.  You have two people who are
> dancing, and it just happens to be together. Most stage dancers almost
> never come to milongas to dance.  They have no interest in it. When I
> have gone with my friend Sergio who dances in many of the shows here he
> has no clue about who any one is. I point out people like Tete, Dany,
> and he has not heard of them. They are performers who dance in whatever
> show to make a living.  Why do you think Mimi Santapa is hired to work
> with them? She has to teach them to move in the shows to resemble a
> tango dancer, and not a jazz or ballet dancer.  Unfortunately there are
> many people who think that if you can kick your leg up high and sweep it
> around the floor that makes you a good tango dancer....
>
> You guys and all your titles for the tango that is danced here.  We have
> Milonguero (short choppy steps, a bent embrace) Salon (embrace media
> pecho with longer steps, Tango Ballet (what you guys call stage,
> performance, or show or whatever) which is NOT danced in the milongas
> except by foreigners who try to impress the Argentines, but in reality
> piss them off, and then nuevo (or what they call here tango for
> export).  That is it.  You never hear people saying "Oh gee, you dance
> apilado upside down, did you learn that in the bathtub?  I prefer to
> dance salon fanstasia that I learned from last week's visiting expert.
> Regardless we all seem to co-exist on  a dance floor together.  Those
> that cannot are elbowed to the middle or in some instances asked to
> leave the floor.
>
> Banging into people.  I have danced with Roberto for a year and a half.
> NEVER ONCE has he ever banged into anyone on the dance floor. NOT ONCE.
> When I dance with him I trust him completely.  His navigation skills are
> mind blowing.  The few choques that have happened have been other
> dancers who have danced backwards or some stupid idiot woman doing a
> boleo.  In every private lesson with every male dancer he teaches about
> navigation as part of the dance.
>
> Julio Balmaceda a milonguero?  Bite your tongue.  He dances and teaches
> tango, but he is not a milonguero, nor is Ernesto.  But  Papa Miguel?
> Yes, of course.  Facundo?  Haven't seen him at a milonga in maybe 5
> years.  You are not a milonguero simply because you are Argentine and
> you dance tango or because you are old.
>
> Give up my 10.5 cm shoes?  Are you out of your mind?  No way.  My shoes
> are comfortable and I dance well in them.  Dancers without balance or
> axis wobble on their shoes and complain about feet that hurt.  Now that
> I am able to practice a little with Roberto, I HATE dancing in my flat
> slippers or socks.  I can't wait to dance in heels again.
>
> All this being said, if you want to experience Buenos Aires, then please
> come without your preconceived notions of what you think tango is here.
> Come with an open mind.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tango-L mailing list
> Tango-L at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>
>