[Tango-L] Social Tango: A Cultural Perspective

[El Mundo del Tango]

Precisely. "Milonguero " label is used so that no issues have to be raised. 
If  "Del Centro" label were used  for example, then  some people would say : 
" But  wasn't  Tango born in the suburbs? ".

Gabriel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Weigel" <tango.society at gmail.com>
To: "El Mundo del Tango" <mail at elmundodeltango.com>
Cc: <tango-l at mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Social Tango: A Cultural Perspective


> Go back and read my original message. You are reading into it some
> things I did not say. I made no claims about 'milonguero' style. I
> specifically used the terms 'social tango', listing 'milonguero' as
> one of these styles. Whether one likes the term or not, it is widely
> used to describe a particular style of tango. Yes, it is the style I
> teach. But that's not the issue I raised. It is one you raised.
>
> On 7/12/06, El Mundo del Tango <mail at elmundodeltango.com> wrote:
>> Ron...If  you  understood Argentine culture as well as you claim to, you
>> would know that "Milonguero" is simply someone who goes partying and 
>> dancing
>> all the time, for social purposes, whatever style he or she dances.
>>  The word is used all over Southamerica , is not exclusive of Argentina 
>> and
>> it may have nothing to do with Tango, depending on context.
>> I think you know very well that you should be calling what you teach
>> "Apilado"  o "Del Centro" but you desperately hang on to the "Milonguero 
>> "
>> label to imply that you are the "real thing", "the authentic one" and the
>> next guy is NOT .
>> Others like you do the same thing with the labels "Close embrace" or 
>> "Buenos
>> Aires style". Shame on them and you. You are excluding and offending
>> millions of milongueros, who never danced such style. Not  now, not in 
>> the
>> Golden ages, not in Buenos Aires, not anywhere . Anybody who doubts this,
>> can refer to Pepito Avellaneda's videos or discuss the issue with living
>> legend milongueros Facundo Posadas or Julio Balmaceda, to name just two.
>> Salon and Nuevo,  like it or not, are also "social ", were also created
>> (Salon, half a century before the so called "milonguero") and are danced 
>> in
>> Buenos Aires, depending on which Milonga you attend, and  can also be 
>> danced
>> in close embrace, even closer.
>> I agree with you and Tom  that we all must use judgement  to  adjust to
>> circumstances and context, but that has absolutely nothing to do with 
>> style.
>> Horrendeous navigation come in all styles and is more a matter of 
>> attitude
>> rather than skills or lack thereof.
>>  To lift your partner over yor head or have her hanging around your waist 
>> I
>> agree is not "social", but I heard the same thing said about boleos,
>> sacadas, enrosques, colgadas, etc. It sounds to me, agreeing with Jake, 
>> like
>> a lame excuse for not making the effort to aquire the skills to be able 
>> to
>> do them.
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ron Weigel" <tango.society at gmail.com>
>> To: <tango-L at mit.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 2:37 PM
>> Subject: [Tango-L] Social Tango: A Cultural Perspective
>>
>>
>> > In Buenos Aires porten~os don't have difficulty separating stage tango
>> > and social tango. This is the culture that created tango, so perhaps
>> > we should listen.
>> >
>> > In the early 20th century, Europeans and North Americans had their
>> > first exposure to tango. It was as shocking as it was popular, often
>> > considered too provocative for euro-norteamericano tastes. So it was
>> > sanitized and standardized to fit the cultural norms of the recipient
>> > cultures. Thus, today ballroom dance studios teach an American tango
>> > where partners at times separate part of the embrace or the
>> > International tango with bizarre head-flicking, both danced in a march
>> > like fashion to marching music with a strong drum line. This dance is
>> > an evolutionary derivative of the tango from Argentina, perhaps much
>> > accurately described as a fusion of a foreign form with an indigenous
>> > (ballroom) form and it is still called 'tango'.
>> >
>> > In the 1980s and 90s Tango Argentino and other stage shows introduced
>> > Europeans and North Americans to another version of tango - tango
>> > fantasia, as it is sometimes called. This type of tango is not
>> > normally danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires. However, exposure to
>> > the shows created a demand from viewers to learn this type of tango
>> > and they did and danced it socially. This learning and further demand
>> > was reinforced by continued travel of tango stage performers to the US
>> > and Europe to teach. Thus, a modified tango fantasia became the norm
>> > at US & European milongas.
>> >
>> > There are probably several reasons why modified tango fantasia became
>> > the standard social form in the US. Part of it is due to a 'founder
>> > effect', i.e., it was the part of the Argentine tango culture that was
>> > brought to the US. However, tango fantasia also met with acceptance in
>> > the US because it blended well within a recipient culture that places
>> > a value on exhibition - whether it is dance or sports or motion
>> > pictures. We are a culture that enjoys and reinforces visual display.
>> >
>> > Social (milonguero and other) styles of tango have had a more
>> > difficult route of cultural diffusion in the US. As an instructor of
>> > the milonguero style in the Midwest US, I have repeatedly encountered
>> > resistence against the idea of dancing with maintained chest-to-chest
>> > contact. North Americans are uncomfortable with close physical
>> > contact. Dancing at a distance and making large conspicuous movements
>> > is less personal, less threatening, more comfortable, more consistent
>> > with our culture.
>> >
>> > This is not to say that tango fantasia is bad or somehow inherently
>> > evil. When done well on the stage, it is an art form to be admired. It
>> > requires great skill. It is great entertainment. However, on the
>> > social dance floor, it can be dangerous. Stop talking about all the
>> > fantasia dancers who respect the line of dance. They are few and far
>> > between. More likely to be encountered are dancers with limited skills
>> > who cannot navigate well and are a collision danger to other dancers.
>> > I've had to learn defensive navigation on the dance floor because of
>> > them.
>> >
>> > Fantasia is adapted to the stage. Social tango is adapted to the
>> > social dance floor.
>> >
>> > Despite exposure to the social style of tango in the US, there is
>> > limited acceptance. I believe one important thing North Americans fail
>> > to understand is that one of the unique features of social tango that
>> > makes it such a powerful experience that we become addicted to it is
>> > that there is connection primarily through the tactile and auditory
>> > sensory modalities, not the visual. Tactile connection with partner,
>> > auditory with music, with the visual sensory modality used primarily
>> > by leaders to navigate so as to not collide with other people on the
>> > floor. In what other dance can we maintain an intimate embrace with a
>> > partner for 10-15 minutes, synchonizing our brething and heartbeats,
>> > bathing in each other's sweat, flowing to passionate music? The
>> > porten~os understand this. North Americans have difficulty letting
>> > down their defenses enough to experience this.
>> >
>> > This concept is very foreign to a culture that glorifies exhibition
>> > and finds interpersonal contact threatening.
>> >
>> > So perhaps a modified tango fantasia or the similar 'nuevo' tango will
>> > define tango social dancing in the US for a long time to come, much as
>> > American Tango and International Tango did previously. But remember,
>> > this is not the tango that is danced socially in Buenos Aires. That
>> > may or may not mean anything to most US dancers, which is not a
>> > surprising revelation, since North Americans are known worldwide for
>> > interpreting any cultural product in their own terms. Our inability to
>> > understand other cultures is one of the reasons we are considered
>> > arrogant and have so much conflict with other cultures all around the
>> > world.
>> >
>> > Ron
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Tango-L mailing list
>> > Tango-L at mit.edu
>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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