[Tango-L] The intellectual sophism of Tango

Thu Jul 13 14:48:35 EDT 2006

Dear Debbi,
Well put.
Thank you,

Joanne Pogros
Cleveland, Ohio

-----Original Message-----
From: dnovitz at lavidacondeby.com
To: tango-l at mit.edu
Sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] The intellectual sophism of Tango

I have always found it interesting to listen to people who don't know a 
thing about what they are talking about.  They propose to be an expert 
but have never had the experience or knowlege it takes to be a real 
expert.  I experienced it my 25 years in the computer business. It is an 
interesting parallel to find it here on this forum.  It is one thing to 
express an opinion, it is another to bully people into accepting that 
your opinion is the right one regardless of whether it is based on fact 
or your own emotions.  Funny thing about all those "computer guys" who 
told me I was wrong and didn't understand how to run a business...they 
all went bankrupt.

It doesn't matter if you dance tango 4 years, 10, or 20.  It does not 
make you an expert.  It doesn't mean you know how to dance.  It just 
means you do.  The most knowledgeable dancers here in Buenos Aires would 
not waste their time with some of the posts I see here.  When I have 
translated for them, they are sometimes horrified, other times amused, 
and most times cannot understand what you guys are thinking when you 
write the things you do.  (Not all of you) 

For me those of you who have NEVER been here except in web experiences 
or vicariously through friends are the worst.  You impose your opinions 
on people as though you have the "inside scoop" of what it is like to 
dance here.  Then there are those who have been to CITA or on a tour and 
went to what we call the "tourist milongas".  Others who have come 
several times.  At least you have been here, even if it was in 
controlled settings.  I live here, I dance with one of the most highly 
regarded dancers and teachers, and I am still learning.  I am happy to 
give my experiences to people but I would never think to impose my 
opinions as the absolute end of conversation I am the best in the world 
because I live here and you don't.  Nooooo

That being said here are my comments:

Gabriel -  a milonguero is as stated by someone else - it is someone who 
lives eats and breathes tango.  They live for that one dance.  In days 
gone by the milonguero was a person who slept all day, didn't work, and 
chased women - but only those that had money.  Someone had to pay for 
those shoes.  Today's milonguero is updated a bit.  Many have danced 
their whole life, but they also worked.  When they retired they began to 
spend their times in the milongas.  Others like Roberto Dentone and Dany 
Garcia have been able to successfully teach and perform.  I would call 
neither lazy.  While both appreciate the female form and are generous 
with compliments, they also are not into chasing every woman around the 
milonga.  Their whole life revolves around tango.  I asked Roberto the 
last time he went to the movies and he said he couldn't remember, maybe 
20 years ago.  When I told him I would take him, he wanted to know A) 
Why and B)Were we going to see a tango movie.

To my knowledge I have NEVER heard the word milonguero used to describe 
anyone except as one who dances tango.  Before I danced tango I danced 
salsa. In the 10 years I danced salsa I NEVER heard any where in Latin 
America the word milonguero.  Salsero yes, milonguero no.  Milonguero 
comes from one who attends the milongas.  Why would some Colombian use 
it to describe a Colombian dancing salsa or vallanato.  You make 
absolutely no sense.

I know many local stage dancers as well as social dancers.  Most stage 
dancers are horrible to dance with.  They have no lead, they are heavy.  
Why?  Because stage tango is choreographed.  You have two people who are 
dancing, and it just happens to be together. Most stage dancers almost 
never come to milongas to dance.  They have no interest in it. When I 
have gone with my friend Sergio who dances in many of the shows here he 
has no clue about who any one is. I point out people like Tete, Dany, 
and he has not heard of them. They are performers who dance in whatever 
show to make a living.  Why do you think Mimi Santapa is hired to work 
with them? She has to teach them to move in the shows to resemble a 
tango dancer, and not a jazz or ballet dancer.  Unfortunately there are 
many people who think that if you can kick your leg up high and sweep it 
around the floor that makes you a good tango dancer....

You guys and all your titles for the tango that is danced here.  We have 
Milonguero (short choppy steps, a bent embrace) Salon (embrace media 
pecho with longer steps, Tango Ballet (what you guys call stage, 
performance, or show or whatever) which is NOT danced in the milongas 
except by foreigners who try to impress the Argentines, but in reality 
piss them off, and then nuevo (or what they call here tango for 
export).  That is it.  You never hear people saying "Oh gee, you dance 
apilado upside down, did you learn that in the bathtub?  I prefer to 
dance salon fanstasia that I learned from last week's visiting expert. 
Regardless we all seem to co-exist on  a dance floor together.  Those 
that cannot are elbowed to the middle or in some instances asked to 
leave the floor.

Banging into people.  I have danced with Roberto for a year and a half.  
NEVER ONCE has he ever banged into anyone on the dance floor. NOT ONCE.  
When I dance with him I trust him completely.  His navigation skills are 
mind blowing.  The few choques that have happened have been other 
dancers who have danced backwards or some stupid idiot woman doing a 
boleo.  In every private lesson with every male dancer he teaches about 
navigation as part of the dance.

Julio Balmaceda a milonguero?  Bite your tongue.  He dances and teaches 
tango, but he is not a milonguero, nor is Ernesto.  But  Papa Miguel?  
Yes, of course.  Facundo?  Haven't seen him at a milonga in maybe 5 
years.  You are not a milonguero simply because you are Argentine and 
you dance tango or because you are old. 

Give up my 10.5 cm shoes?  Are you out of your mind?  No way.  My shoes 
are comfortable and I dance well in them.  Dancers without balance or 
axis wobble on their shoes and complain about feet that hurt.  Now that 
I am able to practice a little with Roberto, I HATE dancing in my flat 
slippers or socks.  I can't wait to dance in heels again. 

All this being said, if you want to experience Buenos Aires, then please 
come without your preconceived notions of what you think tango is here.  
Come with an open mind.

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