[Tango-L] What Does It Take to Dance Tango?

[Christopher L. Everett]

astrid wrote:
>> Extending the leg backwards more than a little bit forces
>> the body to lean forward and put weight on both feet to
>> keep from falling over.  Big no-no.
>>     
> Big no-no for someone who is not yet able to isolate the leg from the hip.
> And this is one of the first things you train when you learn the tango walk.
> IF you have a teacher who teaches the walk.
>   
I'm not sure I know what you're talking about here.  I will
say if you are truly standing on one foot, the free leg can do
almost anything.
>  Aside from wearing
>   
>> heels taller than they are stable on (endemic to tango
>> everywhere), excess leg extension is the major reason
>> women hang off men's shoulders.
>>     
> Good grief, Chris , who are you dancing with?
This is a common experience in the US, and for that matter
in BA as well.  About 40% of women dance this way.
> Have you checked your own
> tango posture in close embrace?
>   
I only dance close.  And my embrace got checked
every private lesson I had, 27 times.  I daresay it's
the best it's ever been, which is not saying much.

The accomodation I make to someone putting their
weight on me is to pick them up off the ground so
I can stand straight.  It's easier than putting up with
a sore lower back.
>> The place to get the extra distance a woman needs to match
>> the longer stride of men (aside from men taking somewhat
>> shorter steps) is the push off from the trailing leg.
>>     
>
> Push off from the standing leg, you mean. The trailing leg is doing what it
> says, and cannot push.
>   
That's what I meant.
> The woman should only use that push if it is matched by a lead from the man,
> otherwise you get that clos-open-close banging connection.
>   
Or she turns into a locomotive.

Which is to say that the man needs to surge
with his standing foot.  Exactly so.
>  A
>   
>> bigger push-off allows her to reach back more without
>> losing equilibrium, just like stepping forward.  But short
>> men leading tall women would step backwards the same way.
>>     
> Step backwards like that as a man and you have a good chance to crash into
> the couple behind you.
>   
Or in front of you in the line of dance ...

But it depends on the situation.  You can use the same technique for
a very short step, and the women will come with you in a definitive
fashion.
>> It is instructive that Mimi taught both men and women how
>> to walk walk forwards and backwards using the same exercises.
>> To do them without falling over, you had to stand on one
>> foot securely and use your knees and hips and the muscles
>> of the inner thigh.
>>     
> These are the muscles you use a lot in tango. Not just to "do the exercises
> without falling over".
>
>   
Yeah.  Working with Mimi did good things for me, I think.
>>>   Regarding spinal movement, for men,
>>> it's more bottom-up, whereas with women, it is more
>>> top-down.
>>>       
>
>   
>> Haven't much looked at that.  I can think of several
>> places where the twist has to go top down for me,
>> though.
>>     
> The giro, e.g., something someone once called the "prelead" on tango-l.
>
>   
That was one place, yeah.  Another would be
the lead for the lapiz.
>>>   There are also a lot of things men can do so
>>> that the woman can be comfortable, such as making the chest
>>> convex or concave.  Obviously, women do not need to change
>>> the convexity or concavity of their chests to accommodate a
>>> step (as far as I know, anyway, aside than colgadas).
>>>       
>> I have a problem with the word "comfort".  All too often,
>> "comfort" means what we are used to doing, not what is
>> correct.
>>     
> ...I used to think I knew what was good.
>
> You are being very discrete in your criticism, Chris
>   
Well, I have to acknowledge that how we dance tango here
in the US has it's differences from how the best dancers in
BA dance.  I think we should minimize those differences as
best we can, but it isn't ever going to be perfect.

It's also the truth.  In BA I learned how to watch people dance
horribly without saying or doing a thing about it, not even
the sotto voce "Que horrible!" that Portenos allowthemselves.
>> In any case, if a woman has good posture, she needs no
>> accommodations.
>>     
>
> Well, actually, you embrace a tall woman quite differently from a short one.
>   
To a point.  The overall dynamics need to be the same though.
>  Moreover, these adjustments can take the
>   
>> man out of a place of optimal posture himself.
>>     
> Esp. if the adjustment is the wrong one.
>
> Dancing
>   
>> with a lot of women who require the same accommodation
>> will only make the accommodation a matter of habit.
>>     
> Yes. The blind leading the blind.
>
>   
I'll go further and say that dancing with bad dancers makes
you worse, no matter how good you are.  I have examples,
I can't talk about in a public forum, so I'm quite comfortable
saying that.
> Astrid
>
>
>