SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
Dart, Jocelyn
jocelyn.dart at sap.com
Thu May 6 19:05:37 EDT 2010
Hi Tom and all,
Suggest you start by looking at the Business Process Management section of the SAP Developer Network site http://sdn.sap.com
I've found the blogs by Soeren Balko particularly helpful.
Also look at the Simple Sample Applications on the ES workplace site http://esworkplace.sap.com You can apply for a userid/password for free on this site to actually run the simple sample applications and you can download the SCA files if you want to see what they look like in NWDS.
Regards,
Jocelyn
-----Original Message-----
From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of Simon, Tom
Sent: Friday, 7 May 2010 12:10 AM
To: sap-wug at mit.edu
Subject: RE: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
I appreciate the site and read every email that comes across. Though we
only have recently begun using workflow this site was instrumental in
understanding and solving some of the workflow issues when we
implemented our Travel workflow in ESS. I would like to know more
about BPM.
Tom Simon
Auto-Owners Insurance
-----Original Message-----
From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf
Of sap-wug-request at mit.edu
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 8:23 AM
To: sap-wug at mit.edu
Subject: SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 13
Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: This Group (Sharath K)
2. RE: This Group (Dart, Jocelyn)
3. RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
(michael.mcley at daimler.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sharath K <ksharath77 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: This Group
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
Message-ID: <920737.91289.qm at web39706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, Definitely this is a usefull group...I always found great solutions
here..
and learned a lot from other's posts..
thanks a lot to every one on this group..
regards,
Sharath K
--- On Wed, 5/5/10, Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com> wrote:
From: Mike Pokraka <wug at workflowconnections.com>
Subject: RE: This Group
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 10:44 AM
Hi Babette,
Thanks for the kind words. The fact that they come from someone who
doesn't post often hilights that posts do retain their usefulness beyond
the initial response. This is the kind of thing that keeps me motivated
to contribute - even if sometimes a hastily scribbled response that I
hope may be of use.
Cheers,
Mike
On Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59 pm, Birchett, Babette wrote:
> Hi Experts,
>
>
>
> I'm kind of a beginner and I find this group VERY useful too.? I learn
> a lot reading your emails.? I save them all in a folder and have
> referred back to them a couple of times when I had a problem.? Thanks
> so much for taking your time to answer questions and helping people
> with their problems.? It's a great resource and we really appreciate
it.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Babette Birchett
>
> SAP Workflow Developer
>
> City of Dallas
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at MIT.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Shai Eyal
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:53 PM
> To: sap-wug at MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: This Group
>
>
>
> Hi Nash,
>
> I disagree - I do believe this group is very useful. Maybe not for
> beginners, but I found it very helpful and I do my best to help in
> what I can.
>
> Regards,
> Shai Eyal SAP Logistics senior consultant SAP Workflow & BPM
> specialist
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaieyal
> Mobile: 972-52-5816633
> Skype Me! <skype:shai.eyal?call>
>
>
> On 04/05/2010 19:23, sap-wug-request at mit.edu wrote:
>
> This Group
> _______________________________________________
> SAP-WUG mailing list
> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 05:15:52 +0200
From: "Dart, Jocelyn" <jocelyn.dart at sap.com>
Subject: RE: This Group
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <sap-wug at mit.edu>
Message-ID:
<8C507B5E0BA5114E933C3C6E2E9729E0065E2B5A25 at DEWDFECCR01.wdf.sap.corp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Mike,
Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm Product
Lead for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.
I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as
complementary. Mainly due to existing business content and solution
maturity issues. Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime
soon.
It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new site
that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would previously
have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided current
limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at some
sites.
A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the same.
We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this forum is:
as BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well or
just stick with traditional workflow?
I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can
confirm generally that we are expecting some better integration options
between workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend and
NW BPM platforms most likely around business event management and
calling of ABAP-based applications. We also expect some sort of import
for 7.3 although I don't expect we will be translating from workflow to
BPM or vice versa - more likely import of a model from business process
modelling applications. I don't expect workflow to be further developed
- although I agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better cross
communication between business and IT.
If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what
information I can. There are trial versions available on SDN if you
want to have a play with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple Sample
Applications on the ESWorkplace site.
Regards,
Jocelyn
________________________________________
From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf Of
Mike Pokraka [wug at workflowconnections.com]
Sent: Thursday, 6 May 2010 1:42 AM
To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
Subject: Re: This Group
Hi Mike,
You'll be pleased to know that I don't consider your situation that
peculiar, most of my projects have been great supporters of workflow.
Unfortunately it's a question of commercial incentive for SAP to devote
significant resources to the workflow engine, so it's easy to arrive at
the "if it ain't broke..." conclusion when asking how further
development is going to increase licensing revenue. For that matter, I
don't see a major MM or SD revision coming out any time soon either.
What I do know is that SAP may not place great strategic value on
Workflow, but do still consider it of functional value. Of course if you
mention BOR there'll be contempt because... well you know my opinion on
it. Workflow however remains a recommended technology under SAP's Best
Built Apps initiative, now in it's third iteration
(http://bestbuiltapps.sap.com - page 18-19), and they are committed to
supporting it for a long time.
NetWeaver BPM is not designed as a replacement for workflow, but a
complementary product. NWBPM has breadth and WF had depth. NWBPM still
has significant shortcomings - a lot of them - and some won't ever go
away simply due to the opposing nature of the designs. For this reason I
don't think WF is dead for a long while yet. I see at least 5-10 years
of significant WF development in the majority of organisations. A great
many aren't even using the UWL yet.
What would be great is something in between the two, and one way would
be a shift towards BPMN compliance/compatibility in the ABAP workflow
engine.
In theory not a ridiculous undertaking as the SAP-WF design is not too
far off BPMN rules (close enough that I advocate BPMN as a documentation
standard for workflows). As NWBPM is BPMN-based, it would make things a
little more portable between the two engines. In dreamland that would
allow people to design a process independent of either and deploy
different parts of it on whichever engine is most suitable.
Cheers,
Mike
develop it further, because the amount of effort required to impact
=licensing revenue?
On Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45 pm, Madgambler wrote:
> Much as I'd like to agree with you Susan, I see and hear plenty to the
> contrary from SAP's own consultants every day here in the UK. And it
> disappoints me because I see a lot of untapped potential being
> overlooked because: a) it's considered to be 'old' so it's not being
> taught in Walldorf/Mumbai, b) it's entirely dependent on ABAP to
> function and c) SAP are trying to abandon their traditional Gui for
> Web UI / BOL / GenIL at an alarming rate.
>
> Granted our situation is a bit peculiar because of the size of the
> system and the (over)dependence on Workflow here but I feel I have to
> regularly defend Workflow as a 'workhorse' on a daily basis. And to be
> honest I'm starting to regard it more and more as an obsolete dead-end
> as that seems to be the overwhelming attitude of anyone coming in from
> the CRM and PI worlds. I don't really believe that it is dead by the
> way but I do think the bell is tolling faintly.
>
> Start talking about BOR to a CRM Consultant these days and you'll hear
> a guffaw of contempt followed swiftly by a dismissal about it being
> yesterday's tool with a limited future. Mention SBWP to the latest
> breed of Developers and half won't have a clue the other half won't
> care, prefering to talk instead about the Web UI home page instead.
>
> Now it could be just me but I really don't see any investment in
> Workflow stuff, just a tacit acceptance that it's hanging around so
> people have to be aware of it and be backwards compatible. The only
> driving force behind Workflow now appears to come from the clients who
> use it and rely on it.
>
> As with ABAP it seems that SAP aren't dumb, they know they have cash
> cow with Workflow. So it's not like it's going to disappear anytime
> soon. But apart from the massive OO heart bypass we saw from 4.6c to
> ECC 6 little else is on the horizon as far as we know. Perhaps you
> know different?
>
> Mike GT
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 4 May 2010, at 20:25, "Keohan, Susan - 1140 - MITLL"
> <keohan at ll.mit.edu > wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> I have seen the decrease in traffic over the past few years. As a
>> matter of fact, I proposed sunsetting this forum in 2007 - at it's
>> 10-year birthday.
>> At the time, many subscribers asked that the list be kept alive, and
>> so it is.
>> As long as someone sees benefit in it, then it is serving its'
>> purpose.
>>
>> Perhaps one way to increase traffic and pour more knowledge into the
>> SAP-WUG fountain is to make a commitment to try to answer - say one
>> question a week
>> - even if it's a little time-consuming? I'll sign up for that.
>>
>> As for Business Workflow receding and waning as a skill set - I
>> respectfully disagree. It's true there are new tools and new
>> technologies, but I still see workflow as the workhorse it is.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Sue
>>
>> ----
>> Susan R. Keohan
>> SAP Workflow Specialist
>> Enterprise Applications
>> Information Services Department
>> MIT Lincoln Laboratory
>> 244 Wood Street, LI-200
>> Lexington, MA. 02420
>> 781-981-3561
>> keohan at LL.MIT.EDU
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On
>> Behalf Of Madgambler
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 3:04 PM
>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group
>> Cc: SAP Workflow Users' Group; sap-wug-request at mit.edu
>> Subject: Re: This Group
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> No point replying to other posts on this thread as the original
>> message is succinct enough to merit a direct response.
>>
>> I think the attention being paid to this forum is directly
>> proportional to the amount and complexity of Workflow development
>> being carried out and the depth of Workflow development experience in
>> the average subscriber.
>>
>> Now it could be argued that fewer 'new' Workflow issues being
>> discussed here could mean good or bad things are happening in the
>> real world. From my personal experience it seems more likely that SAP
>> Buisiness Workflow is receding as a tool and waning as a skillset.
>>
>> Granted it's more immediately accessible to the general Client
>> because it's embedded in the standard offering. But are people
>> pushing the boundaries of what it can do or have we hit them already
>> and that's as far as SAP plan to take it?
>>
>> These days the juicier Business Process Modelling projects are being
>> done in the Composite Environment (Java) arena and less often in the
>> ABAP stack at all.
>>
>> So rather than this Forum losing support I would actually argue that
>> Workflow itself has reached a plateau and stopped evolving. Perhaps
>> only for a while...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike GT
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 4 May 2010, at 16:48, Nash John <emailtonash at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I get the feeling that this group is slowly but steadily loosing its
>>> significance as I don't see members active/willing to get involved
>>> in discussion/help as it used to be 3 to 4 years ago.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Nash
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> SAP-WUG mailing list
>>> SAP-WUG at mit.edu
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>> _______________________________________________
>> SAP-WUG mailing list
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>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 07:22:45 -0500
From: michael.mcley at daimler.com
Subject: RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
To: sap-wug at mit.edu
Message-ID:
<OFE3109FF5.09B47453-ON8625771B.00432812-8625771B.0044047D at dcx.dcx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sue,
Thanks for your answer, it got me looking into the actual method call of
the first task in the workflow - that's were the problem is. I guess
instead of looking into a 100% custom BO method written by one of our
biggest hack developers, I assumed that I had uncovered a bug in SAP
standard that no one else had reported in what, 10 years? Stoo-pid.
Sorry for wasting your time but thanks again ;-)
Michael McLey
MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
1 Mercedes Drive
Vance, AL 35490
PHONE: (205) 462 - 5239
EMAIL: michael.mcley at daimler.com
Sue.Doughty at odfl.com
Sent by: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu
05/05/2010 03:26 PM
Please respond to
sap-wug at mit.edu
To
sap-wug at mit.edu
cc
Subject
RE: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
Hi Michael,
I just tried the same event with the invalid key and the event delivered
properly. When the workflow that was triggered started, it went into
error status because the trip did not exist.
Do you have the Event trace turned on? If not, turn it on (SWELS for
that
specific event) long enough for your event to be triggered again. When
you look in the Event trace in SWEQADM, you can double click the event
that you had the issue with and in the Receiver Data section you will
see
if there were any error messages.
There could be an issue in the Workflow?s Header section under Start
Events that is not allowing the workflow to start.
Regards,
Sue
From: sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces at mit.edu] On Behalf
Of michael.mcley at daimler.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 3:54 PM
To: sap-wug at mit.edu
Subject: Event queue - not a problem, just well... strangeness
Wuggers,
Here is an issue which has probably been discussed before, but I cannot
seem to find an answer for it.
With a few of our workflows, we use the event queue. And of course the
background job (SWEQSRV - running program RSWEQSRV) dequeues the events
and triggers the workflows. I think most people here are familiar with
this process.
The wierd thing is, if I have an event in the queue (which I think is
actually table SWEQUEUE) with an invalid key (in my case BUS2089-CREATED
with key whatever - 999999999999999999, when the job runs, it will
create
a new event with key 000000000000000000 of the same object and event.
This
new event also has an invalid key, and so will keep generating a new
event
with each run of the batch job (the events do not stack up, it just
removes the old one and replaces it with a new event).
Is this normal behavior for this program? Can this behavior be changed
(maybe to not generate a new event)? Any similar experiences?
Michael McLey
MBUSI - IT Parts & Administration
Mercedes-Benz US International, Inc.
1 Mercedes Drive
Vance, AL 35490
PHONE: (205) 462 - 5239
EMAIL: michael.mcley at daimler.com
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