[LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!

Tue Jul 25 03:53:08 EDT 2006

I agree that we are wasting time having such fruitless discussions as our
country is being destroyed, but having written this email to begin 
with, let me
make a couple of points.

First of all, as long as any Lebanese is proud of their Lebanese identity and
respect all their countrymen/women, then they are free to believe 
anything else
they wish to believe. I respect everyone's opinion, and i think as 
Lebanese, one
way to remedy the ever-existing tension is to stop criticizing others' 
beliefs.
I constantly meet people fond of one ideology that express disgust for another
group that believes in a conflicting ideology. This is primitive, because
diversity in beliefs is one of the stepping stones towards democracy.

But for those of you so adamant that we are Phoenician, then why dont you also
consider yourselves to be Roman, or for that matter Greek and if you are so
keen on tracing your identity even further, then you can also call yourselves
descendents of Plankton (no mocking intended). Phoenicians were not placed on
earth by God, they were preexisted by other civilizations and followed by
others thereafter.

The fact is that you can always trace back your origins to all types of
civilizations that existed in your part of the world (and by doing so 
choose to
select the one that seems most appealing), but at the end of the day, we
currently exist in the Arab world and portray traits of an Arab civilization,
and I for one think it is nothing to be embarrassed of.

As for the comment as to whether we spoke arabic or not prior to Islam, 
it does
not matter, we do speak arabic, and should be proud to speak a language with
the rich history that the Arabic language entails. I for one, think that the
best thing about being Lebanese is the fact that we have this mix of religions
and civilizations, and consider my culture to be that of Islam, Druze, and
Christianity, and would not have at any different. But as I have already
stated, as long as you respect your nation, you are all free to believe as you
see fit.

Carl

Quoting Philippe Charles Saad <philippesaad at gmail.com>:

> Guys,
> I guess we are loosing our time discussing such matters.
> But to point some stuff out:
> Thank you Mohammad for pointing that Arabs pre-existed Islam and that Arabs
> and Muslims should not be considered the same.
>
> 1-Chistian Arabs predated Muslims. Look up the Ghassanid tribe who were
> Arabs living in the southern dserts of Syria and Northern Jordan. They were
> the ones helping the umayyad caliphs settle in Syria. They were the ones
> fighting for the Umayyad Caliphate.
> So do not equate Muslims to Arabs and do not look up on christians or look
> down on Muslims or Arabs or vise-versa. This is  a region that has had many
> genetic intemixes and we all have genes from all those civilizations such as
> Phoenicians called also Canaaneans, Arabs from Syria, Arabs from the
> peninsula, Caucasian, cyrcasian, persian, kurds, crusaders, Turkik (from
> central Asia) Greek etc.
>
> 2-For all of you who think they are only  "phoenicians", let me tell you
> that this thinking in 80 years old. Get over that. This is a 1920's trend
> that emerged when Lebanon was formed. The nationalist movement wanted to
> find some common denominator to span the different religions and create a
> common identity (look up Albert Hourani's book, History of the Arab People)
> The same movement happened in Egypt, which triggered the Pharonic revival.
> Can we say then than Egyptians are not Arabs but Pharaonic!!!
>
> Come on grow up, and get educated in your own history and read new books
> with a critical eye rather than sticking to what the people say, or what we
> think suits us or what our high school history books tell us. No history is
> objective and every history is political.
>
>
>
> On 7/24/06, Laila Kobrossy <lailakobrossy at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Robert Fisk has proven to be more "Lebanese" than a lot of us,
>> unfortunately
>> that is.
>> He is mourning Beirut in such an excellent article, unlike a lot of us who
>> are busy pointing fingers at such a crucial time.
>>
>> Thank you Mohamad El-Husseini for your sensible comment.
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: "Mohamad El-Husseini" <abitdodgy at hotmail.com>
>> >To: ziadalbawab at gmail.com, rmekary at aol.com
>> >CC: bmekari at aol.com, lebanon-articles at mit.edu
>> >Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!
>> >Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 23:09:32 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Those commenting on Robert Fisk:
>> >
>> >His intention was not to be racist, but, rather, to expose the irony of
>> >racism in light of current events.
>> >
>> >Rania,
>> >
>> >Remind me to speak to you in Phoenician from hereon; and should we have
>> >lunch, letus eat at a Phoenician restaurant. We should buy some
>> >Phoenicianbooks at the library, and play some Phoenician music on the way
>> >there. Also, there's this Phoenician wedding ceremony we must go to.
>> There
>> >will be many Phoenicians there... don't forget we're celebrating two
>> >Phoenician holidays in the coming week?
>> >
>> >Is this drivel supposed to be serious?
>> >
>> >Say Lebanon is Lebanese if it satisfies you to think that you are not
>> Arab;
>> >and you may not be Arab just like many Lebanese. Lebanon is a country of
>> >many ethnicities including Arabs, and you should accept that as others
>> >should accept you.
>> >
>> >I'd hate to be the one to point this out, but you made a serious error
>> >here:
>> >
>> >"bc of the Islamic invasion and the Coran was written in Arabic and we
>> had
>> >to learn it and speak it."
>> >
>> >There are numerous examples of Arabic pre-Islamic Christian inscriptions,
>> >such as Zabad, near Allepo, dated 512 CE, and Harran, 568 CE, and there
>> are
>> >multiple examples of ancient bibles written in Arabic. Take a look at
>> >arabicbible.com for more details.
>> >
>> >If your point of reference is differences in culture then the same can be
>> >said when contrasting Saudis with Moroccans, for example. If your point
>> of
>> >reference is DNA, genes associated with Phoenicians have been found in
>> all
>> >most countries of the Levant, meaning Saudis are just as Phoenician as I
>> or
>> >you--in terms of genealogy at least. In terms of reality, the Phoenicians
>> >are dead both as people and as civilizations. Many of us may not be Arab,
>> >but they're certainly not Phoenician.
>> >
>> >I think the problem lies in the fact that you equate Muslims and Arabs as
>> >one of the same.
>> >
>> >"You may dislike what I am saying if you were Muslim, but I really don't
>> >care"
>> >
>> >I don't dislike what you are saying because it is inconsequential; I just
>> >find it laughable coming from a Harvard Ph.D.
>> >
>> >Have a goodnight!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >From:"Ziad Al Bawab" <ziadalbawab at gmail.com>
>> >To:"rmekary at aol.com" <rmekary at aol.com>
>> >CC:bmekari at aol.com, lebanon-articles at mit.edu
>> >Subject:Re: [LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!
>> >Date:Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:13:46 -0700
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I regret to hear that there are Lebanese who feel this way to other Arab
>> >people. I, for one, don't feel the same way as you do!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Ziad
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 7/24/06, rmekary at aol.com <rmekary at aol.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Thanks Bassam, I could not have expressed this any better. And I feel the
>> >same way as you do.
>> >Rania Mekary.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: bmekari at aol.com
>> >
>> >To: rmekary at aol.com;
>> >rabih at mit.edu; philippesaad at gmail.com
>> >
>> >Sent: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 7:18 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I sort of agree with rmekary.....I am not sure whysome of you didnot give
>> >this guy Robert Fisk a credit because all whathe was trying to do is to
>> >tell a good story about the Lebanese people and guess what,some of you
>> >took it in a negative tone and wanted to shoot him down....This is
>> >sad...... From my perspective, hats offto him.....My advise to you all is
>> >to get this monkey off your back, stop bickering about the Arabs
>> >andwanting to prove thatLebaneseare Arabs etc. From my
>> >perspectivefriend, I can care less however, I sawnothing but destruction,
>> >corruption, backstabbing and painfrom the so called Arabneighbors so, why
>> >shouldI fightand say ...Hey I am
>> >Arabic; while I am trulyso proud of myself but so ashamed ofmost Arabs
>> >and their mentality and way of thinking. Haveyou checked your genes and
>> >seehow many of the good Arabic genes you have??????You will be
>> >surprised.......All &all, I think most of the Lebanese wish that never
>> >spoke
>> >Arabicnor ever existed in such close proximity to them......Ido not like
>> >howI feel butI cannot helpit.....Sometimes you can ask yourself and
>> >think Hum....whyBassam
>> >feels like this towards the Arabs? and, would he felt different towards
>> >them if they were different and goodneighbors etc....After all, who said
>> >(Arab Jarab)?????
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Ifthey not change howthey think and try to look at life from a positive
>> >aspect and notbe brainwashed by some silly leaders, they are going no
>> >where......
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >You be the judge.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Love you all.......
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bassam Rossi Mekari, MS, PE
>> >Managing Partner
>> >
>> >Three Fold Consultants, LLC
>> >1515 Poydras St., Suite 1875
>> >New Orleans, Louisiana 70112
>> >Off: 504-799-3653
>> >Direct: 504-799-3656
>> >Cel1: 225-205-3490
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: rmekary at aol.com
>> >
>> >To: rabih at mit.edu;
>> >philippesaad at gmail.com
>> >Sent: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 5:49 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi Philippe and Rabih,
>> >
>> >Before you both criticize Robert Fisk, I respect your opinion and I
>> respect
>> >all Arabs. But if you really study the history of Lebanon, you will
>> >realize that we are not Arabs but we are Phoeneciens. This is the pure
>> >truth and I am sure you studied this in the history and you remember your
>> >teacher telling you that there was a debate among historians about
>> whether
>> >they write about Lebanon that is is a
>> >phenecian country with and Arabic facet or an Arabic country... Do not
>> >forget that our true language is not Arabic and our true alphabet is not
>> >the Arabic alphabet and our true numbers are the 1; 2; 3 ; that we
>> >abandoned...
>> >bc of the Islamic invasion and the Coran was written in Arabic and we had
>> >to learn it and speak it.
>> >
>> >You may dislike what I am saying if you were Muslim, but I really don't
>> >care
>> >bc I am only saying the facts and I respect all religions... but come on,
>> >do not deny facts and yes I agree with Robert Fisk: Lebanese people are
>> >different from the surrounding countries.
>> >
>> >
>> >I dont want to say more.
>> >
>> >Thank you.
>> >
>> >Rania.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >Rania Mekary, Ph.D.
>> >Harvard School of Public Health
>> >Nutrition Department
>> >655 Huntington Avenue, Building 2
>> >Boston, Ma 02115
>> >Voice mail: 617-432-6343
>> >Fax: 617-432-2435
>> >
>> >http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/researchers/rmekary.html
>> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >From: rabih at mit.edu
>> >To: philippesaad at gmail.com
>> >Cc:
>> >lebanon-articles at mit.edu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:00 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] We love you Robert Fisk!
>> >
>> >
>> >Philip,
>> >
>> >I was being sarcastic.
>> >
>> >The point of my email was to show how much racism is part of the big
>> >picture in how the West deals with the middle east, and who present it is
>> >(whether consciously or unconsciously) in the discourse of the West, to
>> the
>> >point where even someone like Robert Fisk, whom we consider a champion of
>> >the Arab cause, can utter such idiocies.
>> >
>> >-rabih
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 7/20/06, Philippe Charles Saad <philippesaad at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >This a shame!
>> >What does this "they don't look like the Arab world" mean? Are Arabs
>> >Animals? 2nd degree human being?
>> >what is this racizm?
>> >What's wrong with the Arab world?
>> >If we are sophisticated, educated, cosmopolitan... how does this tie to
>> the
>> >fact that "we don't look like the Arab world"
>> >Aren't we tired of those cliches?
>> >Ohh
>> >yeah Lebanese are not Arabs... what is all is nonsense! I won't even
>> >mention the whole stupid discourse of phoenicians!!
>> >Who cares who we are Arabs, Phoenicians
>> >, meditteraneans, Greeks, maybe we have Romans, crusaders, kurdish or
>> >Indian blood!
>> >Guys who cares, trade was all over the place and people were mixing all
>> >through
>> >teh ages
>> >
>> >If Robert Fiske did a good job reporting about the situation all a long
>> the
>> >years of war, this does not mean that all what he says is sacred!! come
>> on
>> >guys a little critical sense, a little pride.
>> >
>> >Stop escaping what you are and mirror yourself to what you are not
>> because
>> >Europeans or Americans have engrained in you the fact that they are a
>> >better race than Arabs, than chinese
>> >, than indians. No one is better than any other one.
>> >
>> >And now instead of all standing together and seeing our differences as a
>> >richness to stop Israel from bombing, we are abiding by the argument that
>> >Lebanese are not like the Arabs.
>> >
>> >What a shame,
>> >I am disgusted....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On 7/20/06, Rabih Zbib < rabih at mit.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >We are infinitely greatful for our dearest friend Robert Fisk for the
>> >privilige of elevating us to the rank of full human beings, much
>> different
>> >than those other Arabs!
>> >
>> >It amazes me -- I mean, living here in Beirut, as I have for 30 years.
>> Here
>> >are the Lebanese people, sophisticated, educated, cosmopolitan, people
>> who
>> >don't look like the Arab world, they look like us; I mean, people who
>> could
>> >be quite at home on the streets of Paris or New York and London, and some
>> >of them are; people who read, who are very well educated; people who
>> speak
>> >English fluently, French beautifully, and fluent Arabic, as well, of
>> >course; and who, when they die in such large numbers, the best we can
>> >produce is a call for restraint by the State Department and a claim by
>> the
>> >British, our own dear
>> >Tony Blair, that the Israelis are using disproportionate force.
>> >
>> >http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/19/1345257
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Lebanon-Articles mailing list
>> >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu
>> >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >Philippe Charles Saad
>> >473 Adams Street, Apt 1
>> >Dorchester, MA 02122
>> >+1 617 230 6670
>> >
>> >psaad at alum.mit.edu
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >
>> >Lebanon-Articles mailing list
>> >
>> >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu
>> >
>> >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
>> >IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Lebanon-Articles mailing list
>> >
>> >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu
>> >
>> >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >Lebanon-Articles mailing list
>> > >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu
>> > >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Lebanon-Articles mailing list
>> >Lebanon-Articles at mit.edu
>> >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Philippe Charles Saad
> 473 Adams Street, Apt 1
> Dorchester, MA 02122
> +1 617 230 6670
> psaad at alum.mit.edu
>

-- 
Carl Nehme
PhD Candidate
Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics (Course 16)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology