Question about excluding the PAC

Schwartz, John John.Schwartz at
Mon Feb 4 15:35:27 EST 2019

Ok. I was estimating :)  thanks for the feedback.

Anthem, Inc.

John Schwartz,  Exec Advisor, Authentication Services
21555 Oxnard St., Woodland Hills, California 91367
O: (818) 234-6763 |
john.schwartz at

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Bartlett [mailto:abartlet at]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2019 12:29 PM
To: Schwartz, John <John.Schwartz at>; Simo Sorce <simo at>; Mark Pröhl <mark at>; krbdev at
Subject: Re: Question about excluding the PAC

On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 19:32 +0000, Schwartz, John wrote:
> Maybe it is working and I had different expectations.  It seems to
> have reduced the header size from about 6900 to 4500.  Is it normal
> for an authentication token (without authorization data) to be as much
> as 4500?  I was just comparing to NTLM which was closer to 20.

Off tangent, but to reset expectations, an NTLM header of 20 bytes would be just the first 'type 1' or NtLmNegotiate packet, which hasn't got any useful info in it.  The NtLmChallenge is bigger and the NtLmAuthenticate is hundreds of bytes.

Andrew Bartlett

Andrew Bartlett             
Authentication Developer, Samba Team
Samba Developer, Catalyst IT

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