From ralph.hangleiter@WEB.DE Tue Apr 25 14:58:06 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PIw6w6003636 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:06 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2332 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:39 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 5325 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:39 -0400 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de [217.72.192.234] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:38 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by fmmailgate03.web.de Received: by fmmailgate03.web.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k3PIw5lD018880 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:05 +0200 Received: from [84.152.151.169] (helo=[192.168.11.20]) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.107 #108) id 1FYSjd-0007Yo-00 for tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:05 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425095526.033c0688@waxman.net> References: <20060425132240.33644.qmail@web86807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20060425134752.89223.qmail@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060425095526.033c0688@waxman.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <46E6D17E-93E1-4A5A-992F-5553B3823D13@web.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:03 +0200 To: tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) Sender: ralph.hangleiter@WEB.DE X-Sender: ralph.hangleiter@web.de Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] The origins of the word tango/ LATITUDES SPANISH COURSES IN BA X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:58:06 -0000 X-IMAPbase: 1159989918 2108 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Having music on a website which comes on automatically is not only poor coding, but bad form, in my opinion. Regards Ralph From ceverett@CEVERETT.COM Tue Apr 25 15:41:48 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PJfm7d011027 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:48 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2436 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 7348 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 -0400 Received: from cobalt.physemp.com [207.177.51.226] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 EDT X-Warning: mitvma.mit.edu: Host cobalt.physemp.com claimed to be cobalt.physemp.com Received: from [10.0.0.50] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by cobalt.physemp.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FYTOv-0000H2-00 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:40:45 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690477B4 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:42:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:42:39 -0500 From: "Christopher L. Everett" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU References: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] A criticism of the criticism of "TANGO: The Art History of Love... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:41:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Bill King wrote: >I am sorry; I think many are missing the point or points. >1. Thompson's book is good and enlightening, and not the least thought >provoking, but he has a clear agenda, > I suppose you could also say he has a clear agenda, but he also an art historian specializing in the impact of African culture on Europe and the Americas, and he provides the referenced to back up his assertions. I'm not sure that he could have written the book any differently given his source materials. >and he has a tendency to overemphasis the >African contributions by under playing the local Argentine and European >contributions. > "Local Argentine" would certainly include Afro-Argentines, just as we consider African-American bluesmen local to the United States. When the 1880's came around, they had been in Argentina for several generations. >2. I think the African contributions to Tango and other dances and to music >in the new world are considerable, but by no means were they the primary and >continuing influence on all of them all of the time, especially Tango. >Thompson's work gave me that impression. I got the distinct view if it was not >for the African influence initially and continually, Tango would not exist as >we know it. IMO, I seriously question that point of view. > I agree with Thompson. Something would have evolved in BsAs, but if you take away the habanera, you never get to milonga, and without milonga, there is no canyengue, and by extension no tango. Also, the Guardia Vieja owes a formative debt to innovations of black composers, poets and musicians (Mendizabal, Flores and Thompson), as well as the habanera. I think that after 1930 as tango became demarginalized, black influence in the music was less direct as the number of whites in tango increased. >Because Dizzy >Gillespie plays in BsAs in 1956 doesn't, in my mind, equate to a continued black >legacy of tango but rather that of a great musician from a different musical >world crossing over to another compatible genre, like Getz and the Samba. > > This is true insofar as it goes, the Dizzy/Fresedo collaboration is a major stretch, especially since tango was dying on the vine in '56 under the triple threat onslaught of military governments, rock music and television. More to the point were the ongoing and continuing relationships of black dancers with the tango revolutionaries El Cachafaz and Petroleo, as rivals, colleagues and/or partners. You make a good point about the compatibility of tango and jazz ... both use Afro-derived rhythmic structures, so that's at least a partial reason why they are compatible. >3. Finally editorial criticism are written to enflame, and many times the >author takes his point which may be correct and embellishes it to create >controversy, and in doing so he will also overstate the issue. > I can understand stretching a point here and there. Blatant dishonesty in the name of circulation is reprehensible. We can have an argument about whether Thompson belongs in that boat, but Howell does without doubt. >If they didn't, who >would waste there time reading them. So, IMHO this is one of those cases, >where the book overstates its principle point and the critic creates the >controversy by doing likewise. The truth lies somewhere in between. > What I take away from the book is that the Kongo influences on tango are direct and essential, and that blacks continued to provide inspiration out of proportion to their numbers to tango culture at least up to the end of the Golden Age. As a example of the same phenomenon in the US, hardly anyone listens to the old bluesmen in the USA and Great Britain. But it's just impossible to overstate the influence of people like John Lee Hooker, Muddy Watters and B.B. King on music here, because that's what all the musicians used to listen to ... Same thing for hip-hop these days. In 10 years, I predict that the influence of hip-hop will be be pervasive worldwide. It already is for most electrotango ... just listem to those stupid drum machines. >Just some thoughts, > > They are much, much appreciated. Christopher From shahrukh@shahrukhmerchant.com Tue Apr 25 17:22:09 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLM9Rb027393 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:22:09 -0400 Received: from server285.com (server285.com [64.14.68.84]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3PLIwvc020583 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18426 invoked by uid 502); 25 Apr 2006 21:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2006 21:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <444E9236.2080901@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:18:46 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-L@mit.edu, tango-a@mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: PLEASE READ! Tango-L and Tango-A have been moved X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:22:09 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 The Tango-L and Tango-A lists have been moved to the Mailman list management software. Please visit http://www.tango-L.com/ for instructions on unsubscribing, changing your settings, etc. From now on, all postings should be sent to Tango-L@mit.edu or Tango-A.mit.edu (without the "mitvma" that was used before). If you have a web site with information on subscribing to Tango-L/-A the old way, please modify it to point to tango-L.com. If you have any questions not answered at the above web site, please send e-mail to tango-L-owner@mit.edu. Regards, Shahrukh Merchant From shahrukh@SHAHRUKHMERCHANT.COM Tue Apr 25 17:31:43 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLVhjZ029205 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:31:43 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2554 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 9862 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 -0400 Received: from server285.com [64.14.68.84] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by server285.com Received: (qmail 12666 invoked by uid 502); 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Message-ID: <444E9534.1050101@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:31:32 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-L@mitvma.mit.edu, tango-A@mitvma.mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: Here's something you should not do ... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 This is a test of mail sent to the @mitvma.mit.edu address (instead of just @mit.edu) to test the forwarding. Please get used to using tango-L@mit.edu and tango-A@mit.edu (without the "mitvma" part) since this forwarding is only temporary. Shahrukh Merchant tango-L-owner@mit.edu http://www.tango-L.com/ for information on Tango-L and Tango-A From dubrovay@JUNO.COM Tue Apr 25 17:57:22 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLvMXN002456 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:22 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2579 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 0414 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with SMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by outbound-mail.lax.untd.com Received: from webmail53.lax.untd.com (webmail51.lax.untd.com [10.131.27.191]) by smtpout08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCE7G2SAKLL5A2 for (sender ); Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dubrovay@juno.com) by webmail51.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LNT7WDUT; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:56:18 PDT Received: from [65.102.160.131] by webmail51.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:56:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.102.160.131] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "dubrovay@juno.com" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:56:05 GMT To: Tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060425.145618.5316.344726@webmail51.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 1:1:3730499596 X-MAIL-INFO: 2eade48510a0c9ad80e59001d929b5dd34c46dd47da46de9f4fd05e189d15594c95121b9c9e5f9b0c5019d41e44519e06934d1e4ad04ad7515210181d4040d6170e90d0c X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 1cYcuUjW+WJpaGwyP+FHQxVr49JJX39X3DQcZqx4cXl0CdynGxcgSA== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.191|webmail51.lax.untd.com|webmail53.lax.untd.com|dubrovay@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] SLOW DANCE POEM X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:57:22 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 = SLOW DANCE POEM = = This poem was written by a terminally ill young girl in a New York Hospital. It was sent by a medical doctor - = SLOW DANCE Have you ever watched kids On a merry-go-round? Or listened to the rain Slapping on the ground? Ever followed a butterfly's erratic flight? Or gazed at the sun into the fading night? You better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Do you run through each day On the fly? When you ask How are you? Do you hear the reply? When the day is done Do you lie in your bed With the next hundred chores Running through your head? You'd better slow down Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Ever told your child, We'll do it tomorrow? And in your haste, Not see his sorrow? Ever lost touch, Let a good friendship die Cause you never had time To call and say,"Hi" You'd better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. When you run so fast to get somewhere You miss half the fun of getting there. When you worry and hurry through your day, It is like an unopened gift.... Thrown away. Life is not a race. Do take it slower Hear the music Before the song is over. Elemer in Redmond WA From stermitz@tango.org Tue Apr 25 19:51:07 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PNp6wA025560 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:51:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3PNowTc026160 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3PNovNM014561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (vc1-412-1.adsl.indra.com [206.168.200.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3PNouSo086653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> References: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5A190EF4-5A40-4825-95E2-12AC33F2A0C7@tango.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tom Stermitz Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:47 -0600 To: tango-L@mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] A criticism of the criticism of "TANGO: The Art History of Love... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:51:07 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 I read 3/4 of Thompson's book before giving up in frustration. Is he a journalist, a protagonist or an independent semiotician? That there is African influence in tango is without question. And, many of Thompson's photos and documentation are very, very interesting. But, in the end Thompson overdoes things. He heaps so much information on us that everything just ends up in a pile. Inevitably, some of his data is just wrong. If some is wrong, how do I trust the rest of it? I finally stopped reading in a section where he conflates musicians and dancers from the 1910s, 1920s and 1940s in a way that doesn't make sense (i.e. it was incorrect). One other example of sloppy journalism: Thompson talks extensively about Facundo & Kelly without ever mentioning Facundo's N. American heritage (through his father). Why? Because it would be an uncomfortable distraction from the African-Argentine-tango line? And, truly, what does Dizzy Gillespie have to do with Tango. Are we all groovin' together because we're musicians, because Jazz is universal or because we're black? Or, possibly that was a time period when the doors of Argentine nationalism were being opened to N. American influences after being closed from the 30s to 55. (World depression; Peronism; militiary coup...) There was american jazz in Buenos Aires, specifically the New Orleans traditional sound from the late 20s, but no big band swing. When I visited in the mid-1990s the milongas would have sets of "jazz", no sets of swing (lindy), and then sets of Elvis & Chuck Berry. Following Thompson's stone soup recipe, I guess the Black influence on Elvis leads somehow to validating African influences on milongueros of the 1950s... Huh??? I mean to me that is just false analogy. Other examples of sloppy historical observations: Thompson traces african postures used in tango via grainy drawings of black-argentines. To deconstruct Thompson, how do we separate HIS interpretation from the ARTIST's caricature and figure out what the SUBJECTS were really doing. Early in the book, the Thompson the semiotician traces moorish influences in tile treatments. That is a example of a symbol that carries through history, but just because you see diagonal squares in walls doesn't prove the lineage. A , good researcher would need a constellation of associated symbols to prove the point. To be fair, one example that convinces me is the depiction of a carnival parade, because in that case Thompson identifies a combination of symbols characteristic of the parade and follows them through a historical time-line. On Apr 25, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Christopher L. Everett wrote: > Bill King wrote: > >> I am sorry; I think many are missing the point or points. >> 1. Thompson's book is good and enlightening, and not the least >> thought >> provoking, but he has a clear agenda, >> > I suppose you could also say he has a clear agenda, but he also an > art historian specializing in the impact of African culture on Europe > and the Americas, and he provides the referenced to back up his > assertions. I'm not sure that he could have written the book any > differently given his source materials. > >> and he has a tendency to overemphasis the >> African contributions by under playing the local Argentine and >> European >> contributions. >> > >> Because Dizzy >> Gillespie plays in BsAs in 1956 doesn't, in my mind, equate to a >> continued black >> legacy of tango but rather that of a great musician from a >> different musical >> world crossing over to another compatible genre, like Getz and >> the Samba. >> >> > This is true insofar as it goes, the Dizzy/Fresedo collaboration is a > major stretch, especially since tango was dying on the vine in '56 > under the triple threat onslaught of military governments, rock > music and television. > > > Christopher From maritetango@yahoo.com.ar Tue Apr 25 20:27:07 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3Q0R7So032004 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:27:07 -0400 Received: from web54205.mail.yahoo.com (web54205.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.247]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3Q0R0qA017089 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24444 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 00:27:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.ar; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K0OPZ0M//VYZS0LG3zvwmWLmH5iglgyTN3N0weBhdRfHm3LoiwC5D2R6TAoNxjNTMHzPKF0gCmr2JBayBVJ+HlRGICYvslAOrLhW9CT575R56Qf8pRmzEZyH8Wf4THejGdfdWtHSIDSCbE+kaRZa2MPUgo63R9be8ergruxKqVc= ; Message-ID: <20060426002700.24442.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.60.201] by web54205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:00 ART Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:00 -0300 (ART) From: maria ester brenlla To: tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.877 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] SA BUENOS AIRES LA BARRANCA MILONGA (air conditioning) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:27:07 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 LA BARRANCA MILONGA ALL SUNDAYS 9 PM (8-pesos argent.) Lessons 7,30 PM (10-pesos argent.) Tango,vals,milonga traspie Teacher RICARDO VIQUEIRA Organized by Maria Ester-Juan Carlos DJ:"DANY" BORELLI Club Banco Provincia Hipolito Yrigoyen 803 VICENTE LOPEZ Greater Bs.As.NORTH Phone: 4-795-4787 Restaurante,bar,parking inside WOOD FLOOR - AIR CONDITIONING (20 minutes by car ,from the Obelisco) __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ˇgratis! ˇAbrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar From dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com Tue Apr 25 20:29:57 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tvvq032680 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:29:57 -0400 Received: from sherman.stortek.com (sherman.stortek.com [129.80.22.146]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tkdr021222 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sherman.stortek.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sherman.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3Q0TjMS028485 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unix.stortek.com (burma.stortek.com [129.80.16.110]) by sherman.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tj91028482 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magellan.stortek.com (magellan.teq.stortek.com [129.80.96.52]) by unix.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k3Q0TioX020953 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ren.stortek.com by magellan.stortek.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25451; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:42 -0600 Received: by ren.stortek.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA01539; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:43 -0600 From: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz) Message-Id: <200604260029.SAA01539@ren.stortek.com> To: tango-l@mit.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com Subject: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] Website Bad Form X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:29:58 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 > From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:03 +0200 > Having music on a website which comes on automatically is not only > poor coding, but bad form, in my opinion. Video on a website which comes on automatically is also bad form. Especially on the index page!!! From kgalleher@yahoo.com Wed Apr 26 08:50:51 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QCopGg024543 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:50:51 -0400 Received: from web51602.mail.yahoo.com (web51602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.207]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QCohAQ020787 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18810 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 12:50:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xv+W1nNPHzk3Xls2Iv2IzW/KlSI5gLS6d3SmxxTe+CLoci3tlPjOgK1FtULKGQBRz6zPO5tM1KWElU5xp6yikTZ4Hk4Se2uvjZgpx99BnW5LIS+oVdH6dKHpupdJ24GZ8AFmzyLu87N3218f/zquJ09kTdPIJEE5WuNNGz9vPwA= ; Message-ID: <20060426125043.18808.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.21.98.211] by web51602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:50:43 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:50:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kathy galleher To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.577 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:50:51 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 I note that with the new system for Tango L, there is an archives kept by the list (from April 25, 2006 on only). When I tried to access it, it was password protected. Does anyone know how to access these? K --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day From astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp Wed Apr 26 10:55:49 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QEtmlI021081 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:55:49 -0400 Received: from mvs3.plala.or.jp (c158131.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.158.131]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QEtjUF011508 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soteccomputer ([219.164.1.196]) by mvs3.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20060426145544.TJTU11269.mvs3.plala.or.jp@soteccomputer>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:55:44 +0900 Message-ID: <008101c6693f$5202a900$a443fea9@soteccomputer> From: "astrid" To: "kathy galleher" , References: <20060426125043.18808.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:40:10 +0900 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:55:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 I open the link you sent below (mailman...) There you can enter your own password as a subscriber. But I got into the archive from there without a password. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kathy galleher" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives > I note that with the new system for Tango L, there is an archives kept by the list (from April 25, 2006 on only). When I tried to access it, it was password protected. Does anyone know how to access these? > K > > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From shahrukh@shahrukhmerchant.com Wed Apr 26 14:31:57 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QIVvbL030139 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:57 -0400 Received: from server285.com (server285.com [64.14.68.84]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QIVuEn024320 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32704 invoked by uid 502); 26 Apr 2006 18:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2006 18:31:56 -0000 Message-ID: <444FBC93.5010804@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:47 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu, tango-a@mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: Accessing Tango-A and Tango-L archives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:31:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 Sorry, the link on http://tango-L.com was incorrect for this and it confused some people (naturally ...). It was for a private archive (default) but once I made the archive public, it's accessible in another location. This has now been corrected. Please see it at http://www.tango-l.com/ This did bring up a question about passwords (which you don't need for the archives as explained above but you do for other functions). Please visit http://www.tango-l.com/mailman.htm -- under "Changes Under Mailman" Item 5, the passwords are explained. It will be mailed to you once a month, or you can have it mailed to you at any time, or you can turn off the monthly password mailing (by visiting your options settings, for which you DO need a password ...). Finally, I have done some fine-tuning so that digests may be larger before multiple ones per day are generated. Also, do remember to make all your posts in plaintext rather than HTML, otherwise the list processor will try to convert it for you with varying results. Shahrukh From stephen.p.brown@dal.frb.org Wed Apr 26 15:08:34 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJ8YYp004510 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:08:34 -0400 Received: from p3fed1.frb.org (p3fed1.frb.org [199.169.208.132]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QJ8SxX005585 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:08:28 -0400 (EDT) To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:08:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.638 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:08:34 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it used in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in advance that the women would ask the men to dance? With best regards, Steve From dwyliu@gmail.com Wed Apr 26 15:43:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJhkta010429 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:43:46 -0400 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.192]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QJhdbw003008 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i29so1099469wxd for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=WCegn/ZkvrcfoHkumcAeTWaonnt84KZFV4nB5kTa3rX+e8CZ2lVXzbrQgrj7f2XskH76cGe9ks4EFOQZrDTs0AU4PXfWVE7s/ADkv6G8pp0nc2fA0FfJlAnptCfrS8OpicQKMJLPd4Nl/V4c2mbUxSl+FHSRahhTkexF06A/ABM= Received: by 10.70.80.16 with SMTP id d16mr5134689wxb; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <30ad4e030604261243t157abf82w84ff69bc7c70cf36@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 From: "David Liu" To: "Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org" In-Reply-To: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:43:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 In Phoenix, AZ people typically ask others to dance. People sometimes ask w/ eye contact, but it is rarer (and more just "for fun"). How would I feel if women were encouraged to ask men to dance. Hmm. Not quite sure -- I'd have to experince it to decide. Best, David On 4/26/06, Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote= : > > How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it use= d > in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? > > Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? > > For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity > for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? > > How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in > advance that the women would ask the men to dance? > > With best regards, > Steve From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Wed Apr 26 15:49:30 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJnUcw011257 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:49:30 -0400 Received: from web51606.mail.yahoo.com (web51606.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.211]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QJnOp0012455 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69322 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 19:49:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EP9dcWqvk8/2R2TfPkTimh2tWKBYt8AuWektwopbsLjPq+PMn9ijml7NrAWr3k6FkDLJxrRklKRGP1toNLm/27fwJSFCDITyLKYF7iZ9UmDzYI0WXoZeXSvWsJ5R7lgLzabzqnTB5OVM4ElMdYRL3uJ1/07QU7R1moRDy6W5ZFU= ; Message-ID: <20060426194923.69320.qmail@web51606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:49:23 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.505 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] university tango club Club X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:49:30 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 Dear friends I am looking to connect with leaders and members of Argentine Tango Clubs at universities and colleges around the country and the world. The purpose is to establish direct communication among university tango clubs. We have friendly relations among multiple schools already, and are looking for more. It is useful to communicate and exchange experiences with a view to improving student recruitment, lessons and special events. Yale is already in touch with several schools in the region, we carpool to each other's events and exchange useful advice on the specific challenges of running a successful university tango club. If you are a leader or member of a university tango club, or if you know of such a club, can you please send me an email and introduce yourself. If you only know their website that is useful info too, I will contact the students myself. Thank you very much, and I look forward to hearing from you. Have a nice day Tine www.yaletangoclub.org ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From DHodgson@Tango777.com Wed Apr 26 16:04:39 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QK4dBR013147 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:04:39 -0400 Received: from mail.servingit.net (mail.servingit.net [67.19.48.62]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QK4Trb005000 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19173 invoked by uid 89); 26 Apr 2006 20:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO leatherdancer) (4.228.30.23) by mail.servingit.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2006 20:04:23 -0000 From: "David Hodgson" To: "Tango L list" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:07:00 -0600 Message-ID: <003b01c6696c$faa157a0$0220000a@leatherdancer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> Thread-Index: AcZpZk8FvzKC0lb/Roa1xOUFRa44wgABYkkQ X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:04:39 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Now this is entertaining; As far as Cabeceo, it is going on all the time. I have been playing with this for years, it is just in BSAS they made it as part of the dance. If it is equalizing, and if new comers understand it quickly, It yes and no. To really work this it take some awareness and not trying to figure it out. Remember 80 to 95% of communication is non-verbal. I can not believe this question has arisen about the women asking the men. David~ -----Original Message----- From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:08 PM To: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it used in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in advance that the women would ask the men to dance? With best regards, Steve _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From christian.luethen@gmx.net Wed Apr 26 16:12:54 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QKCs4s014586 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:12:54 -0400 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QKClKF027864 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7934 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2006 20:11:08 -0000 Received: from 212.238.218.193 by www029.gmx.net with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:11:08 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:11:08 +0200 (MEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Christian_L=FCthen=22?= To: Shahrukh Merchant MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <444FBC93.5010804@shahrukhmerchant.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Authenticated: #825172 Message-ID: <24931.1146082268@www029.gmx.net> X-Mailer: WWW-Mail 1.6 (Global Message Exchange) X-Flags: 0001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tango-a@mit.edu, tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [Tango-A] ADMIN: Accessing Tango-A and Tango-L archives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:12:54 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Sharukh wrote: > Sorry, the link on http://tango-L.com was incorrect for this and it > confused some people (naturally ...). It was for a private archive > (default) but once I made the archive public, it's accessible in another > location. This has now been corrected. Please see it at > http://www.tango-l.com/ Both links refer to the same location. "www" usually is an innecessary extra. Both 'tango-l' are second level domais, as well as 'com' is the first level domain. 'www' is used to significate a website, but if a server is well configured is not necessary. Greetz & enjoy tango! Christian -- *********************************************** just my personal 50th of an Euro *********************************************** christian.luethen@gmx.net *********************************************** How inappropriate to call this planet earth ... ... as clearly it is ocean! *********************************************** "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail From tangotangotango@gmail.com Wed Apr 26 17:01:52 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QL1qer024210 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:01:52 -0400 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.176]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QKwVuK001635 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 39so1793735pyu for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=Amj5cBI5r/kzGIrHLkHFTsUG4SSwVK2x6frXtGei6VdUQ7iNP60HDRFUFaBCX40LN9LtZ39MwQLEoqXesflN5zwB/BXuS+XSprITlcBuUTYGFGbbotibfPJSeiA/OhL4w8INtaeSEcngZ7NDpctCqXcEIZaHNgFfIqLKvcISsv0= Received: by 10.35.100.6 with SMTP id c6mr657628pym; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.127.15 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:01:45 -0600 From: "Tango Tango" To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:01:52 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" This message was brought to you by Operation Halt Sacrilege & Heresy In Tango From tl2@chrisjj.com Wed Apr 26 18:19:04 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QMJ433005944 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:19:04 -0400 Received: from randymail-a3.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QMIwhY014765 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chrisjj.com (cpc4-cmbg3-0-0-cust643.cmbg.cable.ntl.com [86.14.226.132]) by randymail-a3.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BF5971853B4; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chrisjj.com ([127.0.0.1]) by [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.591) sender ; 26 Apr 2006 23:19:00 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:19 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: X-Ameol-Version: 2.55.2048, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) X-Spam-Score: -0.975 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: tl2@chrisjj.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:19:05 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" Indeed, and a reminder of why teaching is so beneficial to tango. Negative epistasis. Deleterious mutations gathered together in individuals are more effectively eliminated from the population by natural selection. ;) > > Operation Halt Sacrilege & Heresy In Tango LOL! Chris From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 12:22:00 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RGM0oS021604 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:22:00 -0400 Received: from web54702.mail.yahoo.com (web54702.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.192]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RGLqbm015223 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56127 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 16:21:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lTPxq5KikmMF6WPlIrWCmgz/lkSsU+wRw45ZIM1q3kA+gQfxNen0KHdzc6ZUHyuvdM06QLl0Vbk0CNxchsxPuv+00ekRMXIlImd21CEF1aWON5azpQOW7ERxssBvnMpHaNPFg9XVtnvmSQoGM0ZzstO/ZgIYGIRDz8HaiJkkzWU= ; Message-ID: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:21:52 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Tango Tango , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:22:00 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Dear All: --- Tango Tango wrote: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" My view on learning tango: "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You make that decision yourself. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > Sacrilege & Heresy In > Tango > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mnussbau@law.nyc.gov Thu Apr 27 13:08:02 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RH829H030361 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:08:02 -0400 Received: from vwall1a.nyc.gov (vwall1a.nyc.gov [161.185.1.3]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RH7uf5023942 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vwall1a.nyc.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vwall1a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RH7tcg017095 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LAWMAN-EX98.lawlan.nycnet (lawlan [10.159.20.70]) by vwall1a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RH7tKM017091 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lawman-ex98.lawlan.nycnet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE272@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> From: "Nussbaum, Martin" To: "'tango-l@mit.edu'" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:08:02 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 I am interested in finding out about cities, locations, festivals, particularly near US-NE but happy to hear about any location, where Milonga is played and danced more frequently at milongas. Where I am (NYC), the usual DJ protocol is one tanda of 3 milonga per hour, or about 8 minutes total. Since I love dancing milonga, this isnt enough for me. Not only that, but the DJ's tend to play the same 5 or 6 milongas over and over, and I know from the instructors who visit for milonga workshops and bring their music (ie Facundo and Kely) there is a wealth of varied and interesting milonga and candombe out there. To compund my difficulty, most (not all) followers here prefer to rest during Milonga and dance tangos, while I always dance milongas and rest during tangos. The followers often ask me to return to ask them when a tango is played, so I'm fairly sure its not my lack of skill. Some followers tell me milonga is a "guy" thing. Maybe that's true, since the traspie requires a nice closer embrace to really rock. So, are there locations out there where the women absolutely and fearlessly love to dance milonga, and where the DJs are willing to (gasp) shake up the traditional sequences? Desperately Seeking Milonga From donnay@donnay.net Thu Apr 27 13:23:24 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RHNOLv032665 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:24 -0400 Received: from server5.imagelinkusa.net (server5.imagelinkusa.net [65.98.103.2]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RHNIIq021534 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-24-94-194-43.mn.res.rr.com ([24.94.194.43] helo=Compaqdesk) by server5.imagelinkusa.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FZACy-0004Bo-NU for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:16 -0400 From: "Lois Donnay" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:23:08 -0500 Message-ID: <00f701c66a1f$43194da0$640fa8c0@Compaqdesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-From: donnay@donnay.net X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server5.imagelinkusa.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - donnay.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k3RHNOLv032665 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:23:24 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 How about another suggestion - ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*. Especially if you are not a professional dancer who can pick up dances easily. Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the floor. Lois Donnay Minneapolis, MN > -----Original Message----- > From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu > [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Derik Rawson > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:22 AM > To: Tango Tango; tango-l@mit.edu > Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango > teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) > > > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From riccardo@amolf.nl Thu Apr 27 13:32:08 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RHW8qe001621 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:32:08 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.amolf.nl (mailsrv1.amolf.nl [192.16.189.219]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RHW2h5000232 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ravinia (vpn07.amolf.nl [192.87.153.136]) by mailsrv.amolf.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k3RHW0ZQ031352 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:32:00 +0200 Message-Id: <200604271732.k3RHW0ZQ031352@mailsrv.amolf.nl> From: "Riccardo Fanciulli" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:31:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZqIHZ1Vd/GcVqNQLShk7L0IqENcQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-SendmailSecure-Antispam: valid X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Tango Holidays? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:32:08 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Hello list, I was wondering if some of you could give me advice on where to find info about tango holidays in Europe that are devoted to Milonguero style. Trying to come up with ideas for the summer and I'm sure I'll find some good soul willing to help :) Thanks in advance!! - Riccardo (Amsterdam) From tl2@chrisjj.com Thu Apr 27 14:35:55 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RIZtWY014329 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:35:55 -0400 Received: from randymail-a10.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RIZkHl002333 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chrisjj.com (cpc4-cmbg3-0-0-cust643.cmbg.cable.ntl.com [86.14.226.132]) by randymail-a10.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCD8410E85B; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chrisjj.com ([127.0.0.1]) by [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.591) sender ; 27 Apr 2006 19:35:49 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:35 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <00f701c66a1f$43194da0$640fa8c0@Compaqdesk> Message-Id: X-Ameol-Version: 2.55.2048, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: tl2@chrisjj.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:35:55 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 Lois suggested: > ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*. I used to do that... until I found the answer was always the same. "On the dance floor". > Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the > floor. I'm guessing you're a teacher... Chris From stephen.p.brown@dal.frb.org Thu Apr 27 16:59:20 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RKxKos007815 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:59:20 -0400 Received: from p3fed1.frb.org (p3fed1.frb.org [199.169.208.132]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RKxEMR026017 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:59:14 -0400 (EDT) To: Tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:59:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.638 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:59:20 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who choose to dance to each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. And in many milonga classes, the instructors seem to emphasize complex movements over rhythm. In my own community, the number of people dancing milonga increased dramatically after a number of us taught very basic milonga classes, and that allowed me to play more milongas at our milongas. With best regards, Steve From tang0man2005@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 17:26:47 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RLQlEk009913 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:26:47 -0400 Received: from web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.99]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RLQeJL014187 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 92790 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 21:26:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fllo9EZfD1b9qUeQFemWhVAs3F/I6gwT3VBBp5e1qyi3KE9K7aTUIF6bUoUzdrr4dbEKirwnEYZuvMx9mPEHpBCWKKSnA3tbczc0IQ25RSrfJPqtdklGxgLGD2swlRqyPmXvTSlANFAty1o68G77epAhl3/Jj9Zjvqbfx61t35k= ; Message-ID: <20060427212640.92788.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [164.159.172.2] by web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:26:40 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: steve pastor To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:26:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 That's all I can stand. I can't stands no more. Enough already with this distinction between "Teachers" and "wanna be teachers". I say if someone is willing to share their knowledge with you, maybe you could learn what you can from them. It seems to me that most everyone who calls themselves a "teacher" of tango has, one way or another, appointed themselves as a "Teacher". Who exactly, pray tell, decides who is a teacher of tango? Although I have had one (count 'em, one) woman walk away because "you aren't supposed to teach on the dance floor", and have had others let me know either verbally or non-verbally that they weren't open to input, the majority of women who have started to do tango more recently than I have are thankful that someone is willing to explain things to them. And, oddly enough, at the not tango dance venues I frequent, the number of women that are willing to accept input is much higher. There is a selection process going on there of course. Not coincidently, at those other places people aren’t constantly told to beware of people who "want to be teachers". When people share information freely, both misinformation and information is exchanged. So be it. I routinely share the names of those I think are good at teaching with those who seem truly interested in learning, and I certainly hope that people will do "fact checking" regarding what I tell them. It took me into my 30's to know with certainty that all knowledge doesn't come from those we agree to call "teacher" or "professor". I'm not going back. And, oh by the way, just last Sunday two different women I dance with shared with me what was basically the same helpful tip. I welcomed this input, and plan to start using it. Were they "teaching"? Call it what you want. Just don't denigrate it. Sometimes "the rules" are counter productive. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2˘/min or less. From white95r@hotmail.com Thu Apr 27 18:06:44 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RM6iFo017520 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:44 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay114-f36.bay114.hotmail.com [65.54.169.46]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RM6hc2005931 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:06:42 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:06:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.156.7.57] X-Originating-Email: [white95r@hotmail.com] X-Sender: white95r@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> From: "WHITE 95 R" To: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org, Tango-L@mit.edu Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2006 22:06:42.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDC24830:01C66A46] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:06:44 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Hi Steve, That's funny, I've noticed that most of the time when I get requests for milongas, the person who asks is usually a beginner who can't really dance a milonga.... The reason more "milongas" are not played in the milongas is because people prefer tango and vals. Not necessarily because they are not skilled enough to dance milongas, just that they rather dance tango.... Manuel visit our webpage www.tango-rio.com >From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org >To: Tango-L@mit.edu >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? >Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:59:08 -0500 > >As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who choose to dance to >each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing >fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would >like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango >festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of >dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend >a festival. > >That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are >being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or >rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. >Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely >taught. And in many milonga classes, the instructors seem to emphasize >complex movements over rhythm. > >In my own community, the number of people dancing milonga increased >dramatically after a number of us taught very basic milonga classes, and >that allowed me to play more milongas at our milongas. > >With best regards, >Steve >_______________________________________________ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 18:20:46 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMKk5v021696 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:20:46 -0400 Received: from web51610.mail.yahoo.com (web51610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.215]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RMKj2w014338 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7412 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 22:20:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lbqGhWIuxTa2BTnYmj4pHExXLCNEYyIHNEymr2dbIFgj6dKMu66c5tx9easxBPuwOcKUnvQR9HRNN7hZLFxuUxRVsE+BX/tAdAaBIqDTq/Rv5eDN7JPVNvWrR7JCtwb6wuA2/wFPl8FbPdwYtTttefWV0p5XvB8qy0IId1sSehQ= ; Message-ID: <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:45 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.951 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:20:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very much. If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some milonguero tango, oh, NO! Tine PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing classes, who would? Derik Rawson wrote: Dear All: --- Tango Tango wrote: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" My view on learning tango: "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You make that decision yourself. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > Sacrilege & Heresy In > Tango > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From mnussbau@law.nyc.gov Thu Apr 27 18:23:47 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMNl2w022634 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:47 -0400 Received: from vwall2a.nyc.gov (vwall2a.nyc.gov [161.185.1.12]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RMNkXa026411 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vwall2a.nyc.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vwall2a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RMNkpt004826 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LAWMAN-EX98.lawlan.nycnet (lawlan [10.159.20.70]) by vwall2a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RMNkEP004823 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lawman-ex98.lawlan.nycnet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE275@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> From: "Nussbaum, Martin" To: "'tango-l@mit.edu'" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:23:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Stepehn Brown replied: [ In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. ...] Thanks Steve, Well, then what excuse can be made in NYC, where we have ready access to continuing Milonga classes by Omar Vega, Armando Orzuzo, Ney and Jennifer, plus a lot of visiting instructors? Also, in these classes, men usually outnumber women almost 2 to 1. I think its a gender gap. Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do. (That sexist comment should get me lots of flaming e mails. :-) ) Yes, in Washington DC festival they definitely played more milonga and other interesting and unusual stuff. Hope thats the case in Boston this weekend. Desperately Seeking Milonga. From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 18:46:56 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMkuVw026871 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:46:56 -0400 Received: from web51607.mail.yahoo.com (web51607.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.212]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RMkob2028645 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 721 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 22:46:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0SyY7toLCyViGX0wvrLtA9pqcCiOJgKn8x0qkN7OSUvQptvO7z4reE8M6zSj/XoQ0fw7q6JQZqkB03f+UP4eHbTjDNr8YsaNPVFCwRtV31Xsmi15Dt4nWAoMfAhFnMoaPAu+XjHaqGxex0dcoMQrSr1HcSbX29DWyyQsIHXfxhY= ; Message-ID: <20060427224650.719.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:46:50 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE275@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:46:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Hi Martin Well I can tell you the reason why there are fewer women in the milonga classes, it's because women think they know everything and don't need classes. They think, if the dance isn't good it's because the guy didn't lead it well because if he had, I would have followed it well. I am a girl, and I lead and I follow and let me tell you, I always used to think as above, until I started to dance with girls and then it hit me there are a lot of bad followers out there, and I have renewed respect for the guys that they can look as good as they do, dancing with them. There are few followers who dance, most just follow, and many badly. Then of course, if the guys outnumber the girls in the classes, they are less inclined to keep coming to class, and then the women complain that there are more women than experienced men at the milonga. If there were more women in the classes to learn stuff and to partner the men, and if the women didn't complain so much, there wouldn't be a gender imbalance problem anywhere. One guy here, when a girl asked him why he didn't dance with her much anymore, he told her the truth, he said, because you don't bother learning and getting better. Of course next Sunday she came to class. And I hugged him and wished we had more honest guys like him. Tine "Nussbaum, Martin" wrote: Stepehn Brown replied: [ In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. ...] Thanks Steve, Well, then what excuse can be made in NYC, where we have ready access to continuing Milonga classes by Omar Vega, Armando Orzuzo, Ney and Jennifer, plus a lot of visiting instructors? Also, in these classes, men usually outnumber women almost 2 to 1. I think its a gender gap. Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do. (That sexist comment should get me lots of flaming e mails. :-) ) Yes, in Washington DC festival they definitely played more milonga and other interesting and unusual stuff. Hope thats the case in Boston this weekend. Desperately Seeking Milonga. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From neil.liveakos@gmail.com Thu Apr 27 18:56:41 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMufMR028386 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:41 -0400 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RMuZCH002344 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i29so1308427wxd for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=az2JUNDsGlw/OV8ma+aJiJ/7fMJBgln5ukebd9ISgCxvo4scRz/rDVHesvA9DZaktCaUi+3aDgtnkaVJslWUUkSOJPtSDoYXvDscgAvJgGvyxvUVFzTJaqUWx4WPjFYq/PtlcbxxYy8G8mdWgV6RvevzAFNrOVx1PWsR2ozSvzA= Received: by 10.70.115.11 with SMTP id n11mr549932wxc; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.27.20 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737e9d3f0604271556m1411c22fwc1704aa8236b7304@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:35 -0400 From: "Neil Liveakos" To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:56:42 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law? Gracias, Neil Liveakos www.MilongasBlog.com On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club wrote: > > I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very > much. > If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some > milonguero tango, oh, NO! > Tine > > PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself > teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes fo= r > free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needin= g > classes, who would? > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > -- From patangos@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 19:05:06 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RN563S029815 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:05:06 -0400 Received: from web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.246]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RN53su023281 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4896 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 23:05:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SI7Oe11skPPWhkgBAXZJG65/sVSbtu3yax6fXO6YzFUp0p6gzj+M5uywZV53OSWSEk+BV1a1aUYCQwGxSRcu2eHToavQdYwFmruzLPNpdBUixjwOE94Axtf3rQaNoaPMCTRt6ITvoI8PnKuz/ErQq6M0GuVe8rWvYmJFPTwCUbA= ; Message-ID: <20060427230503.4894.qmail@web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.197.199] by web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:05:03 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:05:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Martin, Come to Pittsburgh or one of our nearby communities. Women here love a good milonga dancer. Much more than the men. If you want more milongas, then just ask the deejays. When Susana Miller is here Memorial Day weekend with Diego Vepes, we're having one or two milonga classes. Steve, I agree with your assessment. If people have a strong sense of rhythm in their tango, then they are more likely to succeed in milonga. I think this is why milonguero-style dancers are more comfortable with milonga than nuevo dancers, based on my personal experience with dancers of different styles. It really seems to be in how people hear the music. Milonga was always difficult for me until I continually heard the QQS in tango. Also, there is a fair amount of alternative music which one dances more like milonga than a tango. It's a nice way of getting beginners used to the moving faster. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote: > As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who > choose to dance to > each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, > I find myself playing > fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the > milongas than I myself would > like to dance to. I find that I am able to play > more milongas at tango > festivals than in most communities--maybe because > the general level of > dancing is higher among those who have the > committment necessary to attend > a festival. > > That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the > floor when milongas are > being played may have something to do with a general > lack of milonga or > rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't > much milonga dancing. > Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very > frequently/widely > taught. And in many milonga classes, the > instructors seem to emphasize > complex movements over rhythm. > > In my own community, the number of people dancing > milonga increased > dramatically after a number of us taught very basic > milonga classes, and > that allowed me to play more milongas at our > milongas. > > With best regards, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 19:10:36 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RNAaDX030638 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:10:36 -0400 Received: from web51614.mail.yahoo.com (web51614.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.126]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RNAU7w021144 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7511 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 23:10:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xbUSIpgFwFfmHnUrOWdKz6Wb4Sbif7XqkUD4J84P3gUc79SHZQepslkAYPsDyhLocEDPL1pg1TIWPBrpjG13eAqS5oGp0oNSavqXxWTQxliSbswU6gpYjbguJymlMrkMTopiRKDrpLfLWFpnuynJPi5rp+KFJOwCJBo6JPhQfT0= ; Message-ID: <20060427231030.7509.qmail@web51614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51614.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:10:30 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <737e9d3f0604271556m1411c22fwc1704aa8236b7304@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.505 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:10:36 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 I don't know who Neil is but his 1st law must be "Do Not Believe Everything You Read". It could be he is the same Neil who writes all those fortune cookies in that factory in Queens. Tine Neil Liveakos wrote: --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law? Gracias, Neil Liveakos www.MilongasBlog.com On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club wrote: > > I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very > much. > If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some > milonguero tango, oh, NO! > Tine > > PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself > teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for > free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing > classes, who would? > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > -- _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 19:45:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RNjkLu003770 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:46 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RNjdJK016166 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZG9p-0005kM-Vf for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:44:26 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:45:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Contrary to Tine, I think most women are good dancers. And many many women are excellent. An 99% of all beginners are able to make a fairly good dance with a good leader (if not - he is not a good one yet). I can say only opposite about men. I think it is much easier for a woman to become a good tango dancer than for a man, and never the less men are those who want to learn less. And Tine's example shows just that! I understand what Tine said. What she said means that those women are not good enough to be perfect instruments in men's learning. It is difficult to learn with not finely tuned instrument. They are good enough for dancing with a good leader, but not good for a clumsy beginner. Because, that beginner man must know how to follow! Of course, he does not. I really appreciate advanced women for sharing their time with less advanced dancers. That is how our community grows and that is how I grew myself. I can not express in words how I am grateful! That is an attraction and most important help for tango men. Fewer women in the milonga classes? That is what supposed to be! I vote for women/men = 1/10. :) I believe that is the major reason why tango became tango. Why men should torture women with their learning? They should practice with themselves or hire a good teacher to bring them to shape. But it is a dream, I do not think it will ever happen again like it was in Buenos Aires. How to attract men to classes? It looks like it is a real problem. I do not know. Often girls bring them. May be with time, when Tango gains more social status, and become less complex ( could it? ). Tango definitely has a potential of winning greater social status - you can not dance any other dance in any place with any music, but you can tango! Igor Polk. PS She can not make a volcada? Jeeeeeeeeeee..... But what a hell a man you are if you can not lead anything else! From bailartangos@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 20:33:21 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S0XLk5010146 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:33:21 -0400 Received: from web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.91]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S0XFxH007409 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19568 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 00:33:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vWJeD/eC+NwLMXvu90METJ9lVdnle38WvxqZAybTCjMDsmLoLw5a6hC8ARDlZ1XvBZZkPP4aV9HgL7/KjlxAWyMDQb6AnacFQ4KQVYqBNAdfKBj50I1MkrSIPLFNJJYWxdGQ9jGmJ4mS81wgxvrvtruuyYNozEGsnOJqObkH960= ; Message-ID: <20060428003314.19566.qmail@web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.136.164.186] by web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:33:14 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:33:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "B.T." To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.144 X-Spam-Level: ** (2.144) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:33:21 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I dunnoo...milonga tempo is relentless. Its a move/movement monster, need to be fed a lot. I think a couple milonga tandas an evening is plenty. Hate to score a good partner & then have the music speed up. My opinion... B.T. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From mail@elmundodeltango.com Thu Apr 27 21:32:31 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S1WVnZ019712 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:32:31 -0400 Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.207]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S1WFWw021888 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 33901 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2006 01:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Office) (elmundodeltango@sbcglobal.net@69.226.148.197 with login) by smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2006 01:32:14 -0000 Message-ID: <003901c66a63$99aaec20$c594e245@Office> From: "El Mundo del Tango" To: "Igor Polk" , References: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:32:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:32:31 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 I strongly disagree, Igor. Your posturing only encourages women to walk away from their share of the responsability for the dance and promotes the "if-you-can-lead-I can-follow" nonsense attitude. Gabriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Polk" To: Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas > Contrary to Tine, > I think most women are good dancers. > And many many women are excellent. > An 99% of all beginners are able to make a fairly good dance with a good > leader (if not - he is not a good one yet). > > I can say only opposite about men. > > I think it is much easier for a woman to become a good tango dancer than > for > a man, and never the less men are those who want to learn less. And Tine's > example shows just that! > > I understand what Tine said. What she said means that those women are not > good enough to be perfect instruments in men's learning. It is difficult > to > learn with not finely tuned instrument. They are good enough for dancing > with a good leader, but not good for a clumsy beginner. Because, that > beginner man must know how to follow! Of course, he does not. > > I really appreciate advanced women for sharing their time with less > advanced > dancers. That is how our community grows and that is how I grew myself. I > can not express in words how I am grateful! That is an attraction and most > important help for tango men. > > Fewer women in the milonga classes? That is what supposed to be! I vote > for > women/men = 1/10. :) > I believe that is the major reason why tango became tango. Why men should > torture women with their learning? They should practice with themselves or > hire a good teacher to bring them to shape. > > But it is a dream, I do not think it will ever happen again like it was in > Buenos Aires. > > How to attract men to classes? It looks like it is a real problem. I do > not > know. Often girls bring them. May be with time, when Tango gains more > social > status, and become less complex ( could it? ). > Tango definitely has a potential of winning greater social status - you > can > not dance any other dance in any place with any music, but you can tango! > > > > Igor Polk. > PS She can not make a volcada? Jeeeeeeeeeee..... > But what a hell a man you are if you can not lead anything else! > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 22:00:26 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S20Q6U023890 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:00:26 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3S20K1U000650 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZIGA-0000Yi-4r for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:59:06 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:01:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:00:26 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 "Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do." - Nussbaum, Martin What I said in the previous message applies to tango. In Milonga women really must know how to dance milonga ( it is simple, there are only 2 rules ( Aha, simple.. ;) ). A man no matter how good he is can not lead the right milonga, if a woman does not know what to do. * * * 'I strongly disagree, Igor. Your posturing only encourages women to walk away from their share of the responsability for the dance and promotes the "if-you-can-lead-I can-follow" nonsense attitude.' - Gabriel Yes, Gabriel. If women walk away, tango will die. I am glad you have pointed it out! And men must do their best to learn, and to appreciate what they are given by women. And I am glad to repeat it again: a man can learn from every woman he dances with! Most women dance and know much more than most men. It is logical too: they learn from the best leaders. Right in the dance! Men should learn, men should progress too. And it takes more effort from them to keep up with women. Igor Polk. From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 22:29:49 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S2TnqW027841 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:29:49 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3S2TXeZ007954 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZIiR-0003xB-NF for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:28:19 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:30:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:29:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 I am here to tell more about it. In the dance everything depends on a man! He has to: listen to music, interpret it and find the right rhythmical pattern to convey it to his woman in the lead, to feel her and fix her errors "back-following", he has to be musical, he has to dance different styles to different orchestras, and find out what is good for the particular "her", he has to be creative, improvisational, he has to know how to make the dance interesting, he has to watch for other dancers, dangers, a safe place to make a boleo, to follow the line of the dance, not to speak that he has to move his own legs. And he has to know how to dance milonga! See? 10 times more difficult! A great woman can not compensate it, no matter how good she is! Do men take 10 times more classes? Do they practice 10 times more? No. Then women say: "I am dancing and dancing with them, but they are the same like several years ago! They do not learn! They do not progress! They make all the same steps. Or they do something which I do not know dancing for themselves." And all that time women learned in the dance continuously with the best leaders. No wonder women start to lead themselves. Igor PS, I guess the next question could be: "Your posturing only encourages men to walk away because it is too difficult." I am looking for the answer myself. From patangos@yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 00:58:27 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S4wRlZ019928 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:58:27 -0400 Received: from web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.245]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S4wGJp009214 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 85256 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 04:58:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hjZ8+q5HAT+MdID5oQDNi/Dq2fsfdXvbNYM5e9rroiMffGWY6a5BbpFqqCpSsYjEMhg0x+lkfZYdr5l9UG9MMZyVCCImSjLgfZMcdY9R1zQNBn4YrJvPXDWlooRlaOrx3+M2kck6DMjEeFovJKvWaazM7Z/PO4mTwuinBvR7j0c= ; Message-ID: <20060428045816.85254.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.198.121] by web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:58:16 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:58:27 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hola Igor, Sean here. It wasn't so long ago that I thought just like you do. But I have recently seen (but not yet implemented) the wisdom of Tine's observations. For years I have been one of those guys who always tries to make my partners feel like they can do nothing wrong. Many, many teachers have taught me to do just that. Then last year, a top instructor taught workshops in Pittsburgh for the first time. He had a very different point of view. He held me personally responsible for the bur