From ralph.hangleiter@WEB.DE Tue Apr 25 14:58:06 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PIw6w6003636 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:06 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2332 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:39 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 5325 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:39 -0400 Received: from fmmailgate03.web.de [217.72.192.234] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:58:38 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by fmmailgate03.web.de Received: by fmmailgate03.web.de (8.12.6/8.12.6/webde Linux 0.7) with ESMTP id k3PIw5lD018880 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:05 +0200 Received: from [84.152.151.169] (helo=[192.168.11.20]) by smtp08.web.de with asmtp (WEB.DE 4.107 #108) id 1FYSjd-0007Yo-00 for tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:05 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060425095526.033c0688@waxman.net> References: <20060425132240.33644.qmail@web86807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20060425134752.89223.qmail@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060425095526.033c0688@waxman.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <46E6D17E-93E1-4A5A-992F-5553B3823D13@web.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:03 +0200 To: tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) Sender: ralph.hangleiter@WEB.DE X-Sender: ralph.hangleiter@web.de Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] The origins of the word tango/ LATITUDES SPANISH COURSES IN BA X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:58:06 -0000 X-IMAPbase: 1159989918 2108 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 Having music on a website which comes on automatically is not only poor coding, but bad form, in my opinion. Regards Ralph From ceverett@CEVERETT.COM Tue Apr 25 15:41:48 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PJfm7d011027 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:48 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2436 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 7348 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 -0400 Received: from cobalt.physemp.com [207.177.51.226] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:42:20 EDT X-Warning: mitvma.mit.edu: Host cobalt.physemp.com claimed to be cobalt.physemp.com Received: from [10.0.0.50] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by cobalt.physemp.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FYTOv-0000H2-00 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:40:45 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690477B4 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:42:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:42:39 -0500 From: "Christopher L. Everett" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU References: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] A criticism of the criticism of "TANGO: The Art History of Love... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:41:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 Bill King wrote: >I am sorry; I think many are missing the point or points. >1. Thompson's book is good and enlightening, and not the least thought >provoking, but he has a clear agenda, > I suppose you could also say he has a clear agenda, but he also an art historian specializing in the impact of African culture on Europe and the Americas, and he provides the referenced to back up his assertions. I'm not sure that he could have written the book any differently given his source materials. >and he has a tendency to overemphasis the >African contributions by under playing the local Argentine and European >contributions. > "Local Argentine" would certainly include Afro-Argentines, just as we consider African-American bluesmen local to the United States. When the 1880's came around, they had been in Argentina for several generations. >2. I think the African contributions to Tango and other dances and to music >in the new world are considerable, but by no means were they the primary and >continuing influence on all of them all of the time, especially Tango. >Thompson's work gave me that impression. I got the distinct view if it was not >for the African influence initially and continually, Tango would not exist as >we know it. IMO, I seriously question that point of view. > I agree with Thompson. Something would have evolved in BsAs, but if you take away the habanera, you never get to milonga, and without milonga, there is no canyengue, and by extension no tango. Also, the Guardia Vieja owes a formative debt to innovations of black composers, poets and musicians (Mendizabal, Flores and Thompson), as well as the habanera. I think that after 1930 as tango became demarginalized, black influence in the music was less direct as the number of whites in tango increased. >Because Dizzy >Gillespie plays in BsAs in 1956 doesn't, in my mind, equate to a continued black >legacy of tango but rather that of a great musician from a different musical >world crossing over to another compatible genre, like Getz and the Samba. > > This is true insofar as it goes, the Dizzy/Fresedo collaboration is a major stretch, especially since tango was dying on the vine in '56 under the triple threat onslaught of military governments, rock music and television. More to the point were the ongoing and continuing relationships of black dancers with the tango revolutionaries El Cachafaz and Petroleo, as rivals, colleagues and/or partners. You make a good point about the compatibility of tango and jazz ... both use Afro-derived rhythmic structures, so that's at least a partial reason why they are compatible. >3. Finally editorial criticism are written to enflame, and many times the >author takes his point which may be correct and embellishes it to create >controversy, and in doing so he will also overstate the issue. > I can understand stretching a point here and there. Blatant dishonesty in the name of circulation is reprehensible. We can have an argument about whether Thompson belongs in that boat, but Howell does without doubt. >If they didn't, who >would waste there time reading them. So, IMHO this is one of those cases, >where the book overstates its principle point and the critic creates the >controversy by doing likewise. The truth lies somewhere in between. > What I take away from the book is that the Kongo influences on tango are direct and essential, and that blacks continued to provide inspiration out of proportion to their numbers to tango culture at least up to the end of the Golden Age. As a example of the same phenomenon in the US, hardly anyone listens to the old bluesmen in the USA and Great Britain. But it's just impossible to overstate the influence of people like John Lee Hooker, Muddy Watters and B.B. King on music here, because that's what all the musicians used to listen to ... Same thing for hip-hop these days. In 10 years, I predict that the influence of hip-hop will be be pervasive worldwide. It already is for most electrotango ... just listem to those stupid drum machines. >Just some thoughts, > > They are much, much appreciated. Christopher From shahrukh@shahrukhmerchant.com Tue Apr 25 17:22:09 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLM9Rb027393 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:22:09 -0400 Received: from server285.com (server285.com [64.14.68.84]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3PLIwvc020583 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18426 invoked by uid 502); 25 Apr 2006 21:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2006 21:18:57 -0000 Message-ID: <444E9236.2080901@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:18:46 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-L@mit.edu, tango-a@mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: PLEASE READ! Tango-L and Tango-A have been moved X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:22:09 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3 The Tango-L and Tango-A lists have been moved to the Mailman list management software. Please visit http://www.tango-L.com/ for instructions on unsubscribing, changing your settings, etc. From now on, all postings should be sent to Tango-L@mit.edu or Tango-A.mit.edu (without the "mitvma" that was used before). If you have a web site with information on subscribing to Tango-L/-A the old way, please modify it to point to tango-L.com. If you have any questions not answered at the above web site, please send e-mail to tango-L-owner@mit.edu. Regards, Shahrukh Merchant From shahrukh@SHAHRUKHMERCHANT.COM Tue Apr 25 17:31:43 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLVhjZ029205 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:31:43 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2554 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 9862 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 -0400 Received: from server285.com [64.14.68.84] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:32:16 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by server285.com Received: (qmail 12666 invoked by uid 502); 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Message-ID: <444E9534.1050101@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:31:32 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-L@mitvma.mit.edu, tango-A@mitvma.mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: Here's something you should not do ... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:31:43 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4 This is a test of mail sent to the @mitvma.mit.edu address (instead of just @mit.edu) to test the forwarding. Please get used to using tango-L@mit.edu and tango-A@mit.edu (without the "mitvma" part) since this forwarding is only temporary. Shahrukh Merchant tango-L-owner@mit.edu http://www.tango-L.com/ for information on Tango-L and Tango-A From dubrovay@JUNO.COM Tue Apr 25 17:57:22 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PLvMXN002456 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:22 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 2579 ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 0414 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with SMTP ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:57:55 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by outbound-mail.lax.untd.com Received: from webmail53.lax.untd.com (webmail51.lax.untd.com [10.131.27.191]) by smtpout08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCE7G2SAKLL5A2 for (sender ); Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:56:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dubrovay@juno.com) by webmail51.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LNT7WDUT; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:56:18 PDT Received: from [65.102.160.131] by webmail51.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:56:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.102.160.131] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "dubrovay@juno.com" Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:56:05 GMT To: Tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060425.145618.5316.344726@webmail51.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 1:1:3730499596 X-MAIL-INFO: 2eade48510a0c9ad80e59001d929b5dd34c46dd47da46de9f4fd05e189d15594c95121b9c9e5f9b0c5019d41e44519e06934d1e4ad04ad7515210181d4040d6170e90d0c X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 1cYcuUjW+WJpaGwyP+FHQxVr49JJX39X3DQcZqx4cXl0CdynGxcgSA== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.191|webmail51.lax.untd.com|webmail53.lax.untd.com|dubrovay@juno.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] SLOW DANCE POEM X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:57:22 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5 = SLOW DANCE POEM = = This poem was written by a terminally ill young girl in a New York Hospital. It was sent by a medical doctor - = SLOW DANCE Have you ever watched kids On a merry-go-round? Or listened to the rain Slapping on the ground? Ever followed a butterfly's erratic flight? Or gazed at the sun into the fading night? You better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Do you run through each day On the fly? When you ask How are you? Do you hear the reply? When the day is done Do you lie in your bed With the next hundred chores Running through your head? You'd better slow down Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. Ever told your child, We'll do it tomorrow? And in your haste, Not see his sorrow? Ever lost touch, Let a good friendship die Cause you never had time To call and say,"Hi" You'd better slow down. Don't dance so fast. Time is short. The music won't last. When you run so fast to get somewhere You miss half the fun of getting there. When you worry and hurry through your day, It is like an unopened gift.... Thrown away. Life is not a race. Do take it slower Hear the music Before the song is over. Elemer in Redmond WA From stermitz@tango.org Tue Apr 25 19:51:07 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3PNp6wA025560 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:51:06 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3PNowTc026160 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3PNovNM014561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Received: from [192.168.0.3] (vc1-412-1.adsl.indra.com [206.168.200.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3PNouSo086653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> References: <38d.1c2d620.317f1728@aol.com> <444E7BAF.8000301@ceverett.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5A190EF4-5A40-4825-95E2-12AC33F2A0C7@tango.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tom Stermitz Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:50:47 -0600 To: tango-L@mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] A criticism of the criticism of "TANGO: The Art History of Love... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 23:51:07 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 I read 3/4 of Thompson's book before giving up in frustration. Is he a journalist, a protagonist or an independent semiotician? That there is African influence in tango is without question. And, many of Thompson's photos and documentation are very, very interesting. But, in the end Thompson overdoes things. He heaps so much information on us that everything just ends up in a pile. Inevitably, some of his data is just wrong. If some is wrong, how do I trust the rest of it? I finally stopped reading in a section where he conflates musicians and dancers from the 1910s, 1920s and 1940s in a way that doesn't make sense (i.e. it was incorrect). One other example of sloppy journalism: Thompson talks extensively about Facundo & Kelly without ever mentioning Facundo's N. American heritage (through his father). Why? Because it would be an uncomfortable distraction from the African-Argentine-tango line? And, truly, what does Dizzy Gillespie have to do with Tango. Are we all groovin' together because we're musicians, because Jazz is universal or because we're black? Or, possibly that was a time period when the doors of Argentine nationalism were being opened to N. American influences after being closed from the 30s to 55. (World depression; Peronism; militiary coup...) There was american jazz in Buenos Aires, specifically the New Orleans traditional sound from the late 20s, but no big band swing. When I visited in the mid-1990s the milongas would have sets of "jazz", no sets of swing (lindy), and then sets of Elvis & Chuck Berry. Following Thompson's stone soup recipe, I guess the Black influence on Elvis leads somehow to validating African influences on milongueros of the 1950s... Huh??? I mean to me that is just false analogy. Other examples of sloppy historical observations: Thompson traces african postures used in tango via grainy drawings of black-argentines. To deconstruct Thompson, how do we separate HIS interpretation from the ARTIST's caricature and figure out what the SUBJECTS were really doing. Early in the book, the Thompson the semiotician traces moorish influences in tile treatments. That is a example of a symbol that carries through history, but just because you see diagonal squares in walls doesn't prove the lineage. A , good researcher would need a constellation of associated symbols to prove the point. To be fair, one example that convinces me is the depiction of a carnival parade, because in that case Thompson identifies a combination of symbols characteristic of the parade and follows them through a historical time-line. On Apr 25, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Christopher L. Everett wrote: > Bill King wrote: > >> I am sorry; I think many are missing the point or points. >> 1. Thompson's book is good and enlightening, and not the least >> thought >> provoking, but he has a clear agenda, >> > I suppose you could also say he has a clear agenda, but he also an > art historian specializing in the impact of African culture on Europe > and the Americas, and he provides the referenced to back up his > assertions. I'm not sure that he could have written the book any > differently given his source materials. > >> and he has a tendency to overemphasis the >> African contributions by under playing the local Argentine and >> European >> contributions. >> > >> Because Dizzy >> Gillespie plays in BsAs in 1956 doesn't, in my mind, equate to a >> continued black >> legacy of tango but rather that of a great musician from a >> different musical >> world crossing over to another compatible genre, like Getz and >> the Samba. >> >> > This is true insofar as it goes, the Dizzy/Fresedo collaboration is a > major stretch, especially since tango was dying on the vine in '56 > under the triple threat onslaught of military governments, rock > music and television. > > > Christopher From maritetango@yahoo.com.ar Tue Apr 25 20:27:07 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3Q0R7So032004 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:27:07 -0400 Received: from web54205.mail.yahoo.com (web54205.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.247]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3Q0R0qA017089 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:27:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 24444 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 00:27:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.ar; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K0OPZ0M//VYZS0LG3zvwmWLmH5iglgyTN3N0weBhdRfHm3LoiwC5D2R6TAoNxjNTMHzPKF0gCmr2JBayBVJ+HlRGICYvslAOrLhW9CT575R56Qf8pRmzEZyH8Wf4THejGdfdWtHSIDSCbE+kaRZa2MPUgo63R9be8ergruxKqVc= ; Message-ID: <20060426002700.24442.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.60.201] by web54205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:00 ART Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:27:00 -0300 (ART) From: maria ester brenlla To: tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.877 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] SA BUENOS AIRES LA BARRANCA MILONGA (air conditioning) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:27:07 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7 LA BARRANCA MILONGA ALL SUNDAYS 9 PM (8-pesos argent.) Lessons 7,30 PM (10-pesos argent.) Tango,vals,milonga traspie Teacher RICARDO VIQUEIRA Organized by Maria Ester-Juan Carlos DJ:"DANY" BORELLI Club Banco Provincia Hipolito Yrigoyen 803 VICENTE LOPEZ Greater Bs.As.NORTH Phone: 4-795-4787 Restaurante,bar,parking inside WOOD FLOOR - AIR CONDITIONING (20 minutes by car ,from the Obelisco) __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ˇgratis! ˇAbrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar From dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com Tue Apr 25 20:29:57 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tvvq032680 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:29:57 -0400 Received: from sherman.stortek.com (sherman.stortek.com [129.80.22.146]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tkdr021222 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sherman.stortek.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sherman.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3Q0TjMS028485 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unix.stortek.com (burma.stortek.com [129.80.16.110]) by sherman.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3Q0Tj91028482 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from magellan.stortek.com (magellan.teq.stortek.com [129.80.96.52]) by unix.stortek.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id k3Q0TioX020953 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ren.stortek.com by magellan.stortek.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25451; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:42 -0600 Received: by ren.stortek.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA01539; Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:43 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:29:43 -0600 From: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz) Message-Id: <200604260029.SAA01539@ren.stortek.com> To: tango-l@mit.edu X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com Subject: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] Website Bad Form X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:29:58 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 > From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:58:03 +0200 > Having music on a website which comes on automatically is not only > poor coding, but bad form, in my opinion. Video on a website which comes on automatically is also bad form. Especially on the index page!!! From kgalleher@yahoo.com Wed Apr 26 08:50:51 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QCopGg024543 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:50:51 -0400 Received: from web51602.mail.yahoo.com (web51602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.207]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QCohAQ020787 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18810 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 12:50:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xv+W1nNPHzk3Xls2Iv2IzW/KlSI5gLS6d3SmxxTe+CLoci3tlPjOgK1FtULKGQBRz6zPO5tM1KWElU5xp6yikTZ4Hk4Se2uvjZgpx99BnW5LIS+oVdH6dKHpupdJ24GZ8AFmzyLu87N3218f/zquJ09kTdPIJEE5WuNNGz9vPwA= ; Message-ID: <20060426125043.18808.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.21.98.211] by web51602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:50:43 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 05:50:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kathy galleher To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.577 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:50:51 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 I note that with the new system for Tango L, there is an archives kept by the list (from April 25, 2006 on only). When I tried to access it, it was password protected. Does anyone know how to access these? K --------------------------------- Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day From astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp Wed Apr 26 10:55:49 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QEtmlI021081 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:55:49 -0400 Received: from mvs3.plala.or.jp (c158131.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.158.131]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QEtjUF011508 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:55:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soteccomputer ([219.164.1.196]) by mvs3.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20060426145544.TJTU11269.mvs3.plala.or.jp@soteccomputer>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:55:44 +0900 Message-ID: <008101c6693f$5202a900$a443fea9@soteccomputer> From: "astrid" To: "kathy galleher" , References: <20060426125043.18808.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:40:10 +0900 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:55:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 10 I open the link you sent below (mailman...) There you can enter your own password as a subscriber. But I got into the archive from there without a password. ----- Original Message ----- From: "kathy galleher" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: [Tango-L] Accessing tango larchives > I note that with the new system for Tango L, there is an archives kept by the list (from April 25, 2006 on only). When I tried to access it, it was password protected. Does anyone know how to access these? > K > > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From shahrukh@shahrukhmerchant.com Wed Apr 26 14:31:57 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QIVvbL030139 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:57 -0400 Received: from server285.com (server285.com [64.14.68.84]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QIVuEn024320 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 32704 invoked by uid 502); 26 Apr 2006 18:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shahrukhmerchant.com) (151.204.250.93) by ns1.server285.com with SMTP; 26 Apr 2006 18:31:56 -0000 Message-ID: <444FBC93.5010804@shahrukhmerchant.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:31:47 -0400 From: Shahrukh Merchant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu, tango-a@mit.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] ADMIN: Accessing Tango-A and Tango-L archives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:31:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 Sorry, the link on http://tango-L.com was incorrect for this and it confused some people (naturally ...). It was for a private archive (default) but once I made the archive public, it's accessible in another location. This has now been corrected. Please see it at http://www.tango-l.com/ This did bring up a question about passwords (which you don't need for the archives as explained above but you do for other functions). Please visit http://www.tango-l.com/mailman.htm -- under "Changes Under Mailman" Item 5, the passwords are explained. It will be mailed to you once a month, or you can have it mailed to you at any time, or you can turn off the monthly password mailing (by visiting your options settings, for which you DO need a password ...). Finally, I have done some fine-tuning so that digests may be larger before multiple ones per day are generated. Also, do remember to make all your posts in plaintext rather than HTML, otherwise the list processor will try to convert it for you with varying results. Shahrukh From stephen.p.brown@dal.frb.org Wed Apr 26 15:08:34 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJ8YYp004510 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:08:34 -0400 Received: from p3fed1.frb.org (p3fed1.frb.org [199.169.208.132]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QJ8SxX005585 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:08:28 -0400 (EDT) To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:08:24 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.638 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:08:34 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it used in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in advance that the women would ask the men to dance? With best regards, Steve From dwyliu@gmail.com Wed Apr 26 15:43:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJhkta010429 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:43:46 -0400 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.192]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QJhdbw003008 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i29so1099469wxd for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=WCegn/ZkvrcfoHkumcAeTWaonnt84KZFV4nB5kTa3rX+e8CZ2lVXzbrQgrj7f2XskH76cGe9ks4EFOQZrDTs0AU4PXfWVE7s/ADkv6G8pp0nc2fA0FfJlAnptCfrS8OpicQKMJLPd4Nl/V4c2mbUxSl+FHSRahhTkexF06A/ABM= Received: by 10.70.80.16 with SMTP id d16mr5134689wxb; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.131.17 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <30ad4e030604261243t157abf82w84ff69bc7c70cf36@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:43:39 -0700 From: "David Liu" To: "Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org" In-Reply-To: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:43:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 In Phoenix, AZ people typically ask others to dance. People sometimes ask w/ eye contact, but it is rarer (and more just "for fun"). How would I feel if women were encouraged to ask men to dance. Hmm. Not quite sure -- I'd have to experince it to decide. Best, David On 4/26/06, Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote= : > > How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it use= d > in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? > > Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? > > For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity > for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? > > How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in > advance that the women would ask the men to dance? > > With best regards, > Steve From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Wed Apr 26 15:49:30 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QJnUcw011257 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:49:30 -0400 Received: from web51606.mail.yahoo.com (web51606.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.211]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QJnOp0012455 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 69322 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2006 19:49:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EP9dcWqvk8/2R2TfPkTimh2tWKBYt8AuWektwopbsLjPq+PMn9ijml7NrAWr3k6FkDLJxrRklKRGP1toNLm/27fwJSFCDITyLKYF7iZ9UmDzYI0WXoZeXSvWsJ5R7lgLzabzqnTB5OVM4ElMdYRL3uJ1/07QU7R1moRDy6W5ZFU= ; Message-ID: <20060426194923.69320.qmail@web51606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:49:23 PDT Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.505 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] university tango club Club X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:49:30 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 Dear friends I am looking to connect with leaders and members of Argentine Tango Clubs at universities and colleges around the country and the world. The purpose is to establish direct communication among university tango clubs. We have friendly relations among multiple schools already, and are looking for more. It is useful to communicate and exchange experiences with a view to improving student recruitment, lessons and special events. Yale is already in touch with several schools in the region, we carpool to each other's events and exchange useful advice on the specific challenges of running a successful university tango club. If you are a leader or member of a university tango club, or if you know of such a club, can you please send me an email and introduce yourself. If you only know their website that is useful info too, I will contact the students myself. Thank you very much, and I look forward to hearing from you. Have a nice day Tine www.yaletangoclub.org ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From DHodgson@Tango777.com Wed Apr 26 16:04:39 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QK4dBR013147 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:04:39 -0400 Received: from mail.servingit.net (mail.servingit.net [67.19.48.62]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QK4Trb005000 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19173 invoked by uid 89); 26 Apr 2006 20:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO leatherdancer) (4.228.30.23) by mail.servingit.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2006 20:04:23 -0000 From: "David Hodgson" To: "Tango L list" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:07:00 -0600 Message-ID: <003b01c6696c$faa157a0$0220000a@leatherdancer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 In-Reply-To: <20060426190904.542BDD452F@p3fed1.frb.org> Thread-Index: AcZpZk8FvzKC0lb/Roa1xOUFRa44wgABYkkQ X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:04:39 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 Now this is entertaining; As far as Cabeceo, it is going on all the time. I have been playing with this for years, it is just in BSAS they made it as part of the dance. If it is equalizing, and if new comers understand it quickly, It yes and no. To really work this it take some awareness and not trying to figure it out. Remember 80 to 95% of communication is non-verbal. I can not believe this question has arisen about the women asking the men. David~ -----Original Message----- From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:08 PM To: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: [Tango-L] Asking Someone to Dance How prevalent is the cabeceo at milongas outside Buenos Aires? Is it used in only a few communities, or is it widely used throughout the world? Do newcomers to tango seem to understand the cabeceo quickly enough? For those using the cabeceo, does it seem to provide an equal opportunity for both men and women to indicate with whom they want to dance? How would people feel about attending a milonga where it was announced in advance that the women would ask the men to dance? With best regards, Steve _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From christian.luethen@gmx.net Wed Apr 26 16:12:54 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QKCs4s014586 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:12:54 -0400 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3QKClKF027864 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7934 invoked by uid 0); 26 Apr 2006 20:11:08 -0000 Received: from 212.238.218.193 by www029.gmx.net with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:11:08 +0200 (MEST) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:11:08 +0200 (MEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Christian_L=FCthen=22?= To: Shahrukh Merchant MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <444FBC93.5010804@shahrukhmerchant.com> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Authenticated: #825172 Message-ID: <24931.1146082268@www029.gmx.net> X-Mailer: WWW-Mail 1.6 (Global Message Exchange) X-Flags: 0001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tango-a@mit.edu, tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [Tango-A] ADMIN: Accessing Tango-A and Tango-L archives X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:12:54 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 Sharukh wrote: > Sorry, the link on http://tango-L.com was incorrect for this and it > confused some people (naturally ...). It was for a private archive > (default) but once I made the archive public, it's accessible in another > location. This has now been corrected. Please see it at > http://www.tango-l.com/ Both links refer to the same location. "www" usually is an innecessary extra. Both 'tango-l' are second level domais, as well as 'com' is the first level domain. 'www' is used to significate a website, but if a server is well configured is not necessary. Greetz & enjoy tango! Christian -- *********************************************** just my personal 50th of an Euro *********************************************** christian.luethen@gmx.net *********************************************** How inappropriate to call this planet earth ... ... as clearly it is ocean! *********************************************** "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail From tangotangotango@gmail.com Wed Apr 26 17:01:52 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QL1qer024210 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:01:52 -0400 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.176]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QKwVuK001635 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 39so1793735pyu for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=Amj5cBI5r/kzGIrHLkHFTsUG4SSwVK2x6frXtGei6VdUQ7iNP60HDRFUFaBCX40LN9LtZ39MwQLEoqXesflN5zwB/BXuS+XSprITlcBuUTYGFGbbotibfPJSeiA/OhL4w8INtaeSEcngZ7NDpctCqXcEIZaHNgFfIqLKvcISsv0= Received: by 10.35.100.6 with SMTP id c6mr657628pym; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.127.15 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:01:45 -0600 From: "Tango Tango" To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:01:52 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 17 Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" This message was brought to you by Operation Halt Sacrilege & Heresy In Tango From tl2@chrisjj.com Wed Apr 26 18:19:04 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3QMJ433005944 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:19:04 -0400 Received: from randymail-a3.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3QMIwhY014765 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chrisjj.com (cpc4-cmbg3-0-0-cust643.cmbg.cable.ntl.com [86.14.226.132]) by randymail-a3.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BF5971853B4; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chrisjj.com ([127.0.0.1]) by [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.591) sender ; 26 Apr 2006 23:19:00 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:19 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> Message-Id: X-Ameol-Version: 2.55.2048, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) X-Spam-Score: -0.975 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: tl2@chrisjj.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:19:05 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" Indeed, and a reminder of why teaching is so beneficial to tango. Negative epistasis. Deleterious mutations gathered together in individuals are more effectively eliminated from the population by natural selection. ;) > > Operation Halt Sacrilege & Heresy In Tango LOL! Chris From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 12:22:00 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RGM0oS021604 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:22:00 -0400 Received: from web54702.mail.yahoo.com (web54702.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.192]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RGLqbm015223 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 56127 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 16:21:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lTPxq5KikmMF6WPlIrWCmgz/lkSsU+wRw45ZIM1q3kA+gQfxNen0KHdzc6ZUHyuvdM06QLl0Vbk0CNxchsxPuv+00ekRMXIlImd21CEF1aWON5azpQOW7ERxssBvnMpHaNPFg9XVtnvmSQoGM0ZzstO/ZgIYGIRDz8HaiJkkzWU= ; Message-ID: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:21:52 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:21:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Tango Tango , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <9fb1555a0604261401q97e4b6aue695406fbea92e33@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:22:00 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 Dear All: --- Tango Tango wrote: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" My view on learning tango: "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You make that decision yourself. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > Sacrilege & Heresy In > Tango > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mnussbau@law.nyc.gov Thu Apr 27 13:08:02 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RH829H030361 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:08:02 -0400 Received: from vwall1a.nyc.gov (vwall1a.nyc.gov [161.185.1.3]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RH7uf5023942 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vwall1a.nyc.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vwall1a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RH7tcg017095 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LAWMAN-EX98.lawlan.nycnet (lawlan [10.159.20.70]) by vwall1a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RH7tKM017091 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lawman-ex98.lawlan.nycnet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE272@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> From: "Nussbaum, Martin" To: "'tango-l@mit.edu'" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:07:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:08:02 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 I am interested in finding out about cities, locations, festivals, particularly near US-NE but happy to hear about any location, where Milonga is played and danced more frequently at milongas. Where I am (NYC), the usual DJ protocol is one tanda of 3 milonga per hour, or about 8 minutes total. Since I love dancing milonga, this isnt enough for me. Not only that, but the DJ's tend to play the same 5 or 6 milongas over and over, and I know from the instructors who visit for milonga workshops and bring their music (ie Facundo and Kely) there is a wealth of varied and interesting milonga and candombe out there. To compund my difficulty, most (not all) followers here prefer to rest during Milonga and dance tangos, while I always dance milongas and rest during tangos. The followers often ask me to return to ask them when a tango is played, so I'm fairly sure its not my lack of skill. Some followers tell me milonga is a "guy" thing. Maybe that's true, since the traspie requires a nice closer embrace to really rock. So, are there locations out there where the women absolutely and fearlessly love to dance milonga, and where the DJs are willing to (gasp) shake up the traditional sequences? Desperately Seeking Milonga From donnay@donnay.net Thu Apr 27 13:23:24 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RHNOLv032665 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:24 -0400 Received: from server5.imagelinkusa.net (server5.imagelinkusa.net [65.98.103.2]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RHNIIq021534 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-24-94-194-43.mn.res.rr.com ([24.94.194.43] helo=Compaqdesk) by server5.imagelinkusa.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FZACy-0004Bo-NU for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:23:16 -0400 From: "Lois Donnay" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:23:08 -0500 Message-ID: <00f701c66a1f$43194da0$640fa8c0@Compaqdesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-ImageLinkUSA-MailScanner-From: donnay@donnay.net X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server5.imagelinkusa.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - donnay.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k3RHNOLv032665 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:23:24 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 How about another suggestion - ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*. Especially if you are not a professional dancer who can pick up dances easily. Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the floor. Lois Donnay Minneapolis, MN > -----Original Message----- > From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu > [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Derik Rawson > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:22 AM > To: Tango Tango; tango-l@mit.edu > Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango > teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) > > > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From riccardo@amolf.nl Thu Apr 27 13:32:08 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RHW8qe001621 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:32:08 -0400 Received: from mailsrv.amolf.nl (mailsrv1.amolf.nl [192.16.189.219]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RHW2h5000232 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ravinia (vpn07.amolf.nl [192.87.153.136]) by mailsrv.amolf.nl (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k3RHW0ZQ031352 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:32:00 +0200 Message-Id: <200604271732.k3RHW0ZQ031352@mailsrv.amolf.nl> From: "Riccardo Fanciulli" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:31:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcZqIHZ1Vd/GcVqNQLShk7L0IqENcQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-SendmailSecure-Antispam: valid X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Tango Holidays? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:32:08 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 Hello list, I was wondering if some of you could give me advice on where to find info about tango holidays in Europe that are devoted to Milonguero style. Trying to come up with ideas for the summer and I'm sure I'll find some good soul willing to help :) Thanks in advance!! - Riccardo (Amsterdam) From tl2@chrisjj.com Thu Apr 27 14:35:55 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RIZtWY014329 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:35:55 -0400 Received: from randymail-a10.dreamhost.com (mailbigip.dreamhost.com [208.97.132.5]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RIZkHl002333 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chrisjj.com (cpc4-cmbg3-0-0-cust643.cmbg.cable.ntl.com [86.14.226.132]) by randymail-a10.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCD8410E85B; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chrisjj.com ([127.0.0.1]) by [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (SpamPal v1.591) sender ; 27 Apr 2006 19:35:49 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:35 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <00f701c66a1f$43194da0$640fa8c0@Compaqdesk> Message-Id: X-Ameol-Version: 2.55.2048, Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: tl2@chrisjj.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:35:55 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 23 Lois suggested: > ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*. I used to do that... until I found the answer was always the same. "On the dance floor". > Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the > floor. I'm guessing you're a teacher... Chris From stephen.p.brown@dal.frb.org Thu Apr 27 16:59:20 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RKxKos007815 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:59:20 -0400 Received: from p3fed1.frb.org (p3fed1.frb.org [199.169.208.132]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RKxEMR026017 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:59:14 -0400 (EDT) To: Tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:59:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.638 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:59:20 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who choose to dance to each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. And in many milonga classes, the instructors seem to emphasize complex movements over rhythm. In my own community, the number of people dancing milonga increased dramatically after a number of us taught very basic milonga classes, and that allowed me to play more milongas at our milongas. With best regards, Steve From tang0man2005@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 17:26:47 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RLQlEk009913 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:26:47 -0400 Received: from web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.99]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RLQeJL014187 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:26:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 92790 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 21:26:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fllo9EZfD1b9qUeQFemWhVAs3F/I6gwT3VBBp5e1qyi3KE9K7aTUIF6bUoUzdrr4dbEKirwnEYZuvMx9mPEHpBCWKKSnA3tbczc0IQ25RSrfJPqtdklGxgLGD2swlRqyPmXvTSlANFAty1o68G77epAhl3/Jj9Zjvqbfx61t35k= ; Message-ID: <20060427212640.92788.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [164.159.172.2] by web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:26:40 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: steve pastor To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:26:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 That's all I can stand. I can't stands no more. Enough already with this distinction between "Teachers" and "wanna be teachers". I say if someone is willing to share their knowledge with you, maybe you could learn what you can from them. It seems to me that most everyone who calls themselves a "teacher" of tango has, one way or another, appointed themselves as a "Teacher". Who exactly, pray tell, decides who is a teacher of tango? Although I have had one (count 'em, one) woman walk away because "you aren't supposed to teach on the dance floor", and have had others let me know either verbally or non-verbally that they weren't open to input, the majority of women who have started to do tango more recently than I have are thankful that someone is willing to explain things to them. And, oddly enough, at the not tango dance venues I frequent, the number of women that are willing to accept input is much higher. There is a selection process going on there of course. Not coincidently, at those other places people aren’t constantly told to beware of people who "want to be teachers". When people share information freely, both misinformation and information is exchanged. So be it. I routinely share the names of those I think are good at teaching with those who seem truly interested in learning, and I certainly hope that people will do "fact checking" regarding what I tell them. It took me into my 30's to know with certainty that all knowledge doesn't come from those we agree to call "teacher" or "professor". I'm not going back. And, oh by the way, just last Sunday two different women I dance with shared with me what was basically the same helpful tip. I welcomed this input, and plan to start using it. Were they "teaching"? Call it what you want. Just don't denigrate it. Sometimes "the rules" are counter productive. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2˘/min or less. From white95r@hotmail.com Thu Apr 27 18:06:44 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RM6iFo017520 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:44 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay114-f36.bay114.hotmail.com [65.54.169.46]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RM6hc2005931 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:06:42 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.169.200 by by114fd.bay114.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:06:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.156.7.57] X-Originating-Email: [white95r@hotmail.com] X-Sender: white95r@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> From: "WHITE 95 R" To: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org, Tango-L@mit.edu Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:06:42 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2006 22:06:42.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDC24830:01C66A46] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:06:44 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 Hi Steve, That's funny, I've noticed that most of the time when I get requests for milongas, the person who asks is usually a beginner who can't really dance a milonga.... The reason more "milongas" are not played in the milongas is because people prefer tango and vals. Not necessarily because they are not skilled enough to dance milongas, just that they rather dance tango.... Manuel visit our webpage www.tango-rio.com >From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org >To: Tango-L@mit.edu >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? >Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:59:08 -0500 > >As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who choose to dance to >each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing >fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would >like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango >festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of >dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend >a festival. > >That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are >being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or >rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. >Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely >taught. And in many milonga classes, the instructors seem to emphasize >complex movements over rhythm. > >In my own community, the number of people dancing milonga increased >dramatically after a number of us taught very basic milonga classes, and >that allowed me to play more milongas at our milongas. > >With best regards, >Steve >_______________________________________________ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 18:20:46 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMKk5v021696 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:20:46 -0400 Received: from web51610.mail.yahoo.com (web51610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.215]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RMKj2w014338 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7412 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 22:20:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=lbqGhWIuxTa2BTnYmj4pHExXLCNEYyIHNEymr2dbIFgj6dKMu66c5tx9easxBPuwOcKUnvQR9HRNN7hZLFxuUxRVsE+BX/tAdAaBIqDTq/Rv5eDN7JPVNvWrR7JCtwb6wuA2/wFPl8FbPdwYtTttefWV0p5XvB8qy0IId1sSehQ= ; Message-ID: <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:45 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.951 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:20:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 27 I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very much. If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some milonguero tango, oh, NO! Tine PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing classes, who would? Derik Rawson wrote: Dear All: --- Tango Tango wrote: "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" My view on learning tango: "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You make that decision yourself. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > Sacrilege & Heresy In > Tango > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From mnussbau@law.nyc.gov Thu Apr 27 18:23:47 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMNl2w022634 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:47 -0400 Received: from vwall2a.nyc.gov (vwall2a.nyc.gov [161.185.1.12]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RMNkXa026411 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vwall2a.nyc.gov (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vwall2a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RMNkpt004826 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LAWMAN-EX98.lawlan.nycnet (lawlan [10.159.20.70]) by vwall2a.nyc.gov (8.13.6/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k3RMNkEP004823 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lawman-ex98.lawlan.nycnet with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:46 -0400 Message-ID: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE275@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> From: "Nussbaum, Martin" To: "'tango-l@mit.edu'" Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:23:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:23:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 Stepehn Brown replied: [ In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. ...] Thanks Steve, Well, then what excuse can be made in NYC, where we have ready access to continuing Milonga classes by Omar Vega, Armando Orzuzo, Ney and Jennifer, plus a lot of visiting instructors? Also, in these classes, men usually outnumber women almost 2 to 1. I think its a gender gap. Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do. (That sexist comment should get me lots of flaming e mails. :-) ) Yes, in Washington DC festival they definitely played more milonga and other interesting and unusual stuff. Hope thats the case in Boston this weekend. Desperately Seeking Milonga. From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 18:46:56 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMkuVw026871 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:46:56 -0400 Received: from web51607.mail.yahoo.com (web51607.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.212]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RMkob2028645 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:46:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 721 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 22:46:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0SyY7toLCyViGX0wvrLtA9pqcCiOJgKn8x0qkN7OSUvQptvO7z4reE8M6zSj/XoQ0fw7q6JQZqkB03f+UP4eHbTjDNr8YsaNPVFCwRtV31Xsmi15Dt4nWAoMfAhFnMoaPAu+XjHaqGxex0dcoMQrSr1HcSbX29DWyyQsIHXfxhY= ; Message-ID: <20060427224650.719.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51607.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:46:50 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:46:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E311CE275@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:46:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 Hi Martin Well I can tell you the reason why there are fewer women in the milonga classes, it's because women think they know everything and don't need classes. They think, if the dance isn't good it's because the guy didn't lead it well because if he had, I would have followed it well. I am a girl, and I lead and I follow and let me tell you, I always used to think as above, until I started to dance with girls and then it hit me there are a lot of bad followers out there, and I have renewed respect for the guys that they can look as good as they do, dancing with them. There are few followers who dance, most just follow, and many badly. Then of course, if the guys outnumber the girls in the classes, they are less inclined to keep coming to class, and then the women complain that there are more women than experienced men at the milonga. If there were more women in the classes to learn stuff and to partner the men, and if the women didn't complain so much, there wouldn't be a gender imbalance problem anywhere. One guy here, when a girl asked him why he didn't dance with her much anymore, he told her the truth, he said, because you don't bother learning and getting better. Of course next Sunday she came to class. And I hugged him and wished we had more honest guys like him. Tine "Nussbaum, Martin" wrote: Stepehn Brown replied: [ In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playing fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself would like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to attend a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas are being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing. Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely taught. ...] Thanks Steve, Well, then what excuse can be made in NYC, where we have ready access to continuing Milonga classes by Omar Vega, Armando Orzuzo, Ney and Jennifer, plus a lot of visiting instructors? Also, in these classes, men usually outnumber women almost 2 to 1. I think its a gender gap. Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do. (That sexist comment should get me lots of flaming e mails. :-) ) Yes, in Washington DC festival they definitely played more milonga and other interesting and unusual stuff. Hope thats the case in Boston this weekend. Desperately Seeking Milonga. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From neil.liveakos@gmail.com Thu Apr 27 18:56:41 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RMufMR028386 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:41 -0400 Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RMuZCH002344 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i29so1308427wxd for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=az2JUNDsGlw/OV8ma+aJiJ/7fMJBgln5ukebd9ISgCxvo4scRz/rDVHesvA9DZaktCaUi+3aDgtnkaVJslWUUkSOJPtSDoYXvDscgAvJgGvyxvUVFzTJaqUWx4WPjFYq/PtlcbxxYy8G8mdWgV6RvevzAFNrOVx1PWsR2ozSvzA= Received: by 10.70.115.11 with SMTP id n11mr549932wxc; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.27.20 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737e9d3f0604271556m1411c22fwc1704aa8236b7304@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:35 -0400 From: "Neil Liveakos" To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060427162152.56125.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.225 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:56:42 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law? Gracias, Neil Liveakos www.MilongasBlog.com On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club wrote: > > I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very > much. > If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some > milonguero tango, oh, NO! > Tine > > PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself > teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes fo= r > free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needin= g > classes, who would? > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > -- From patangos@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 19:05:06 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RN563S029815 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:05:06 -0400 Received: from web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.246]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RN53su023281 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:05:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 4896 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 23:05:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SI7Oe11skPPWhkgBAXZJG65/sVSbtu3yax6fXO6YzFUp0p6gzj+M5uywZV53OSWSEk+BV1a1aUYCQwGxSRcu2eHToavQdYwFmruzLPNpdBUixjwOE94Axtf3rQaNoaPMCTRt6ITvoI8PnKuz/ErQq6M0GuVe8rWvYmJFPTwCUbA= ; Message-ID: <20060427230503.4894.qmail@web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.197.199] by web30613.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:05:03 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060427205951.E6A39D458C@p3fed1.frb.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:05:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 Martin, Come to Pittsburgh or one of our nearby communities. Women here love a good milonga dancer. Much more than the men. If you want more milongas, then just ask the deejays. When Susana Miller is here Memorial Day weekend with Diego Vepes, we're having one or two milonga classes. Steve, I agree with your assessment. If people have a strong sense of rhythm in their tango, then they are more likely to succeed in milonga. I think this is why milonguero-style dancers are more comfortable with milonga than nuevo dancers, based on my personal experience with dancers of different styles. It really seems to be in how people hear the music. Milonga was always difficult for me until I continually heard the QQS in tango. Also, there is a fair amount of alternative music which one dances more like milonga than a tango. It's a nice way of getting beginners used to the moving faster. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote: > As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who > choose to dance to > each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, > I find myself playing > fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the > milongas than I myself would > like to dance to. I find that I am able to play > more milongas at tango > festivals than in most communities--maybe because > the general level of > dancing is higher among those who have the > committment necessary to attend > a festival. > > That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the > floor when milongas are > being played may have something to do with a general > lack of milonga or > rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't > much milonga dancing. > Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very > frequently/widely > taught. And in many milonga classes, the > instructors seem to emphasize > complex movements over rhythm. > > In my own community, the number of people dancing > milonga increased > dramatically after a number of us taught very basic > milonga classes, and > that allowed me to play more milongas at our > milongas. > > With best regards, > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 19:10:36 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RNAaDX030638 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:10:36 -0400 Received: from web51614.mail.yahoo.com (web51614.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.126]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3RNAU7w021144 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:10:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7511 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Apr 2006 23:10:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xbUSIpgFwFfmHnUrOWdKz6Wb4Sbif7XqkUD4J84P3gUc79SHZQepslkAYPsDyhLocEDPL1pg1TIWPBrpjG13eAqS5oGp0oNSavqXxWTQxliSbswU6gpYjbguJymlMrkMTopiRKDrpLfLWFpnuynJPi5rp+KFJOwCJBo6JPhQfT0= ; Message-ID: <20060427231030.7509.qmail@web51614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.177.66.247] by web51614.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:10:30 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <737e9d3f0604271556m1411c22fwc1704aa8236b7304@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.505 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:10:36 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 32 I don't know who Neil is but his 1st law must be "Do Not Believe Everything You Read". It could be he is the same Neil who writes all those fortune cookies in that factory in Queens. Tine Neil Liveakos wrote: --- Tango Tango wrote: > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn > decreases at the same rate" OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law? Gracias, Neil Liveakos www.MilongasBlog.com On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club wrote: > > I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very > much. > If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some > milonguero tango, oh, NO! > Tine > > PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself > teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for > free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing > classes, who would? > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > -- _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 19:45:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3RNjkLu003770 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:46 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3RNjdJK016166 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZG9p-0005kM-Vf for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:44:26 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:46:46 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:45:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Contrary to Tine, I think most women are good dancers. And many many women are excellent. An 99% of all beginners are able to make a fairly good dance with a good leader (if not - he is not a good one yet). I can say only opposite about men. I think it is much easier for a woman to become a good tango dancer than for a man, and never the less men are those who want to learn less. And Tine's example shows just that! I understand what Tine said. What she said means that those women are not good enough to be perfect instruments in men's learning. It is difficult to learn with not finely tuned instrument. They are good enough for dancing with a good leader, but not good for a clumsy beginner. Because, that beginner man must know how to follow! Of course, he does not. I really appreciate advanced women for sharing their time with less advanced dancers. That is how our community grows and that is how I grew myself. I can not express in words how I am grateful! That is an attraction and most important help for tango men. Fewer women in the milonga classes? That is what supposed to be! I vote for women/men = 1/10. :) I believe that is the major reason why tango became tango. Why men should torture women with their learning? They should practice with themselves or hire a good teacher to bring them to shape. But it is a dream, I do not think it will ever happen again like it was in Buenos Aires. How to attract men to classes? It looks like it is a real problem. I do not know. Often girls bring them. May be with time, when Tango gains more social status, and become less complex ( could it? ). Tango definitely has a potential of winning greater social status - you can not dance any other dance in any place with any music, but you can tango! Igor Polk. PS She can not make a volcada? Jeeeeeeeeeee..... But what a hell a man you are if you can not lead anything else! From bailartangos@yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 20:33:21 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S0XLk5010146 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:33:21 -0400 Received: from web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.91]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S0XFxH007409 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19568 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 00:33:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vWJeD/eC+NwLMXvu90METJ9lVdnle38WvxqZAybTCjMDsmLoLw5a6hC8ARDlZ1XvBZZkPP4aV9HgL7/KjlxAWyMDQb6AnacFQ4KQVYqBNAdfKBj50I1MkrSIPLFNJJYWxdGQ9jGmJ4mS81wgxvrvtruuyYNozEGsnOJqObkH960= ; Message-ID: <20060428003314.19566.qmail@web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.136.164.186] by web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:33:14 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:33:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "B.T." To: tango-l@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.144 X-Spam-Level: ** (2.144) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:33:21 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 I dunnoo...milonga tempo is relentless. Its a move/movement monster, need to be fed a lot. I think a couple milonga tandas an evening is plenty. Hate to score a good partner & then have the music speed up. My opinion... B.T. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From mail@elmundodeltango.com Thu Apr 27 21:32:31 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S1WVnZ019712 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:32:31 -0400 Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.207]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S1WFWw021888 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 33901 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2006 01:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Office) (elmundodeltango@sbcglobal.net@69.226.148.197 with login) by smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2006 01:32:14 -0000 Message-ID: <003901c66a63$99aaec20$c594e245@Office> From: "El Mundo del Tango" To: "Igor Polk" , References: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:32:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:32:31 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 I strongly disagree, Igor. Your posturing only encourages women to walk away from their share of the responsability for the dance and promotes the "if-you-can-lead-I can-follow" nonsense attitude. Gabriel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Polk" To: Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas > Contrary to Tine, > I think most women are good dancers. > And many many women are excellent. > An 99% of all beginners are able to make a fairly good dance with a good > leader (if not - he is not a good one yet). > > I can say only opposite about men. > > I think it is much easier for a woman to become a good tango dancer than > for > a man, and never the less men are those who want to learn less. And Tine's > example shows just that! > > I understand what Tine said. What she said means that those women are not > good enough to be perfect instruments in men's learning. It is difficult > to > learn with not finely tuned instrument. They are good enough for dancing > with a good leader, but not good for a clumsy beginner. Because, that > beginner man must know how to follow! Of course, he does not. > > I really appreciate advanced women for sharing their time with less > advanced > dancers. That is how our community grows and that is how I grew myself. I > can not express in words how I am grateful! That is an attraction and most > important help for tango men. > > Fewer women in the milonga classes? That is what supposed to be! I vote > for > women/men = 1/10. :) > I believe that is the major reason why tango became tango. Why men should > torture women with their learning? They should practice with themselves or > hire a good teacher to bring them to shape. > > But it is a dream, I do not think it will ever happen again like it was in > Buenos Aires. > > How to attract men to classes? It looks like it is a real problem. I do > not > know. Often girls bring them. May be with time, when Tango gains more > social > status, and become less complex ( could it? ). > Tango definitely has a potential of winning greater social status - you > can > not dance any other dance in any place with any music, but you can tango! > > > > Igor Polk. > PS She can not make a volcada? Jeeeeeeeeeee..... > But what a hell a man you are if you can not lead anything else! > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 22:00:26 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S20Q6U023890 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:00:26 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3S20K1U000650 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZIGA-0000Yi-4r for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:59:06 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:01:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:00:26 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 "Maybe women just dont hear that primal beat the way men do." - Nussbaum, Martin What I said in the previous message applies to tango. In Milonga women really must know how to dance milonga ( it is simple, there are only 2 rules ( Aha, simple.. ;) ). A man no matter how good he is can not lead the right milonga, if a woman does not know what to do. * * * 'I strongly disagree, Igor. Your posturing only encourages women to walk away from their share of the responsability for the dance and promotes the "if-you-can-lead-I can-follow" nonsense attitude.' - Gabriel Yes, Gabriel. If women walk away, tango will die. I am glad you have pointed it out! And men must do their best to learn, and to appreciate what they are given by women. And I am glad to repeat it again: a man can learn from every woman he dances with! Most women dance and know much more than most men. It is logical too: they learn from the best leaders. Right in the dance! Men should learn, men should progress too. And it takes more effort from them to keep up with women. Igor Polk. From ipolk@virtuar.com Thu Apr 27 22:29:49 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S2TnqW027841 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:29:49 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3S2TXeZ007954 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZIiR-0003xB-NF for tango-l@mit.edu; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:28:19 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:30:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:29:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 I am here to tell more about it. In the dance everything depends on a man! He has to: listen to music, interpret it and find the right rhythmical pattern to convey it to his woman in the lead, to feel her and fix her errors "back-following", he has to be musical, he has to dance different styles to different orchestras, and find out what is good for the particular "her", he has to be creative, improvisational, he has to know how to make the dance interesting, he has to watch for other dancers, dangers, a safe place to make a boleo, to follow the line of the dance, not to speak that he has to move his own legs. And he has to know how to dance milonga! See? 10 times more difficult! A great woman can not compensate it, no matter how good she is! Do men take 10 times more classes? Do they practice 10 times more? No. Then women say: "I am dancing and dancing with them, but they are the same like several years ago! They do not learn! They do not progress! They make all the same steps. Or they do something which I do not know dancing for themselves." And all that time women learned in the dance continuously with the best leaders. No wonder women start to lead themselves. Igor PS, I guess the next question could be: "Your posturing only encourages men to walk away because it is too difficult." I am looking for the answer myself. From patangos@yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 00:58:27 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S4wRlZ019928 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:58:27 -0400 Received: from web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.245]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3S4wGJp009214 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 85256 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 04:58:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hjZ8+q5HAT+MdID5oQDNi/Dq2fsfdXvbNYM5e9rroiMffGWY6a5BbpFqqCpSsYjEMhg0x+lkfZYdr5l9UG9MMZyVCCImSjLgfZMcdY9R1zQNBn4YrJvPXDWlooRlaOrx3+M2kck6DMjEeFovJKvWaazM7Z/PO4mTwuinBvR7j0c= ; Message-ID: <20060428045816.85254.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.198.121] by web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:58:16 PDT Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:58:27 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hola Igor, Sean here. It wasn't so long ago that I thought just like you do. But I have recently seen (but not yet implemented) the wisdom of Tine's observations. For years I have been one of those guys who always tries to make my partners feel like they can do nothing wrong. Many, many teachers have taught me to do just that. Then last year, a top instructor taught workshops in Pittsburgh for the first time. He had a very different point of view. He held me personally responsible for the burgeoning mediocrity of many Pittsburgh followers because I make them feel like they can really dance. He was very insistent that I stop dancing with intermediate dancers, to encourage them to improve. He also pointed out that when I make a mediocre dancer look very good, it is very discouraging to other advanced leaders who are not so skilled at compensating for the women's mistakes. Finally, I also discovered that in order to be always ready to adjust for the woman's misstep, I hold back my own intention. It is clear to me that this guy is right on all three points. By dancing with intermediate followers, I rob them of the incentive to improve, I set an impossible standard for the other men, and I hold back my own development. But for the most part, I have not been successful implementing a change. When I have told women that I don't want to dance with them because they have not improved in a while, their reaction has varied in its unpleasantness, but it has never been to start taking classes again. I hope Tine will also hug the woman who started going to classes again. I wish there were more honest women like her. Sean P.S. I particularly like Tine's point about dancing verses just following. I am sure any man knows exactly what she means, but how do you explain it to the women who don't lead? Does anyone have any tips for teaching women to dance, instead of just following? --- Igor Polk wrote: In the dance everything depends on a man! PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ceverett@ceverett.com Fri Apr 28 03:01:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3S71k79002855 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 03:01:46 -0400 Received: from cobalt.physemp.com (cobalt.physemp.com [207.177.51.226]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3S71SWN025889 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 03:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.0.50] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by cobalt.physemp.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FZMym-0006XQ-00 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:01:28 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65F1168 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:03:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4451BE4A.8090107@ceverett.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 02:03:38 -0500 From: "Christopher L. Everett" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tango-L References: <20060428045816.85254.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060428045816.85254.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:01:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 What he said. It is possible for a follower to be essentially useless as a dance partner. I've met more than a few. The worst is when they think they know what they are doing. The universal constant with them is that they hardly ever take instruction, a few classes a year, and at that, they never took beginner classes. To summarize, I like how Tom Stermitz defines intermediate: not taking classes anymore. The real magic of tango happens with both partners operating at a high level. And for followers to operate at that level they need to work as hard as the leads. Christopher Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote: >Hola Igor, > >Sean here. It wasn't so long ago that I thought just >like you do. But I have recently seen (but not yet >implemented) the wisdom of Tine's observations. > >For years I have been one of those guys who always >tries to make my partners feel like they can do >nothing wrong. Many, many teachers have taught me to >do just that. Then last year, a top instructor taught >workshops in Pittsburgh for the first time. He had a >very different point of view. He held me personally >responsible for the burgeoning mediocrity of many >Pittsburgh followers because I make them feel like >they can really dance. He was very insistent that I >stop dancing with intermediate dancers, to encourage >them to improve. He also pointed out that when I make >a mediocre dancer look very good, it is very >discouraging to other advanced leaders who are not so >skilled at compensating for the women's mistakes. >Finally, I also discovered that in order to be always >ready to adjust for the woman's misstep, I hold back >my own intention. > >It is clear to me that this guy is right on all three >points. By dancing with intermediate followers, I rob >them of the incentive to improve, I set an impossible >standard for the other men, and I hold back my own >development. But for the most part, I have not been >successful implementing a change. When I have told >women that I don't want to dance with them because >they have not improved in a while, their reaction has >varied in its unpleasantness, but it has never been to >start taking classes again. I hope Tine will also hug >the woman who started going to classes again. I wish >there were more honest women like her. > >Sean > >P.S. I particularly like Tine's point about dancing >verses just following. I am sure any man knows exactly >what she means, but how do you explain it to the women >who don't lead? Does anyone have any tips for teaching >women to dance, instead of just following? > > >--- Igor Polk wrote: >In the dance everything depends on a man! > > >PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society >Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. >http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > From ipolk@virtuar.com Fri Apr 28 07:03:49 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SB3mTs004481 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:03:48 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (unknown.ord.scnet.net [205.234.148.63] (may be forged)) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3SB3fvm029378 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FZQlA-0001o3-Ql for tango-l@mit.edu; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:03:41 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 04:05:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:03:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 It does not seem I was able to let you understand me, I guess it is my English. In my post "He has to: listen to music, ...." should this phrase be changed to : "He should : listen to music, ...." ? In the sense "Look how many things a man should do!" or still "have to be able to do to be a good leader"? I am lost. Igor. From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Fri Apr 28 07:21:28 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SBLSLN006925 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:21:28 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail01.cavtel.net [64.83.1.221]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3SBLRnY002065 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from michaeldesktop (unverified [67.62.32.68]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail01) with ESMTP id 18160849 for multiple; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:21:26 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c66ab5$f3516360$44203e43@michaeldesktop> From: "Michael" To: , References: <20060427224650.719.qmail@web51607.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:21:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 405, in=502, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 67.62.32.68 X-Spam-Score: -2.224 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: Michael Subject: [Tango-L] What do you want from tango X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:21:28 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 There's been quite a bit of writing about dancers not taking classes to = improve. Some have written women don't want to take classes. Others say = its men. We really need to step away from the gender complaints and look at it = from a people perspective. I've had this discussion many times with my teacher. "Why would anybody = accept dancing terribly?" Well, if you're in a community of terrible = dancers, you don't know good dancing so you don't have a basis of = comparison. Not everybody wants to reach their potential. Some are content to dance = badly. They don't want to dance well. Their attitude is "just show me = enough so I can get up on the floor." Just because I want to reach my = potential doesn't mean everybody wants to reach their potential.=20 There are women I won't dance with because it's no fun for me. It feels = like I'm driving a bus (before they had power steering.) Every dancer has to answer the question "Is no tango better than bad = tango?" If "bad tango" is the answer, then better dancers are sending a = message that quality doesn't count if they continue to dance with poor = dancers. When quality becomes more important than quantity, maybe the = word will get out that to dance with a better dancer, you have to be a = better dancer. Everybody comes to tango for different reasons. For some, it's the = dance. For others, this is where I find my next spouse or intimate = other. I remember one man told me that a woman was "auditioning" men to = be her boyfriend by dancing with them. Why don't we just call it straight? There are dancers with a = professional attitude "I want to be my best" and there are those who = just don't care.=20 I remember Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion (the basis for the musical "My Fair = Lady.") We can't turn other people into what we want them to be. I = stopped dancing with one woman. It wasn't important for her to fix her = pivot problem. I couldn't lead her in molinetes. I finally stopped = banging my head against the wall telling her to pivot. I just stopped = dancing with her. She's not happy about it. I told her to do something = about it. She did. She found somebody else!! Now, it's his problem!! This blunt talk reminds me of the movie "A few good men." Col. Nathan R. = Jessep yells "You can't handle the truth." Maybe that's why the better = dancers don't tell the truth to those who don't want to improve. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC Two more weeks till the all night milonga in New York. Hoping N and O = are there. From dubravko_2005@yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 10:15:03 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SEF3ZY015168 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:15:03 -0400 Received: from web31908.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31908.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.88]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3SEEvOm017240 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14879 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 14:14:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Fzux14Xtctv3IvsExwDPgLc5KsNTWJeyBzWeftPyW43YBtc4MEV442nznJSzSI69HEAxp7mzEKn71Bma+TvlM/dzgcxMEvwkTsb2sUUjJ8IvY4b+490KrJ9y0TINEV7UbGMB28xbVNERhFSZdavguXXZvrh2dfyFj9khJX61y68= ; Message-ID: <20060428141457.14877.qmail@web31908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.44.15.72] by web31908.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:14:56 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:14:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Dubravko Kakarigi To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <003b01c66ab5$f3516360$44203e43@michaeldesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.156 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What do you want from tango X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:15:03 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 Hmmmmm. It would be almost impossible to find two dancers dancing first time with each other to completely match their skills. So, there is always some negotiation going on at first. I often encourage pure beginners (I am just an advanced beginner, if there is such a thing) to dance simply but to the music and with the feeling for the partner, the music, and the dance. To me that is more important than any number of fancy steps and figures done without meaning and without substance based in music. So, the point is that with each woman I dance somewhat differently based on what works. Why would I try to force a molinete, for example, only to give up dancing with her because "she can not pivot" when thousands of variations of a simple walk, which can be easily initiated, can give infinite small pleasures? If I try certain figure and it does not work, I might try it again, just in case my lead was not clear, and if it does not work again I do something else without registering a complaint. The other day during a practica a lady who is a fairly advanced dancer and I demonstrated how to dance close embrace simply and beautifully (too many people are quick to learn more advanced figures without ever learning to dance). We did nothing but walk, not even a cruzada was involved, not to speak of anything else, just walking with pausing, pivoting, and change of direction through a rocking step. We had a blissful dance to the music and people clapped at the end. Why? I think because they could not miss the fact that the two of us really enjoyed the dance and that alone was infectious. So, to answer the question in the subject line, what I want from tango is a connection, a pleasure of two people sharing the gift for each other - a dance where both are enjoying it. A nicely danced figure can contribute to it, but is not a requirement. BTW, I love dancing milonga. ...dubravko ================================================== seek, appreciate, and create beauty ================================================== From curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar Fri Apr 28 10:16:01 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SEG1gb015407 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:16:01 -0400 Received: from web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.80]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3SEFtWm018764 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:15:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 80474 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 14:15:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.ar; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JSdi88lwKYIrhzFReHUkYy2jowjzWHA8Lg3rHOd04zUGujQSgmEnpaaJGVO4M+S2iP0iVrz+2/BDbTVtbzq6oBK7jUm5b71gdtfYCOL9B16TqOa511FATHEeTLM6LGGA/vLWjhy10G/AzzDR5E1Mud1Oulbjha/xDUbR96T+ZH4= ; Message-ID: <20060428141555.80472.qmail@web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.128.134.68] by web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:15:55 GMT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:15:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Lucia To: Michael , YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <003b01c66ab5$f3516360$44203e43@michaeldesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.803 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: Michael Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What do you want from tango - A matter of dedication.... X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:16:01 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 To Tango well one needs talent, much time and total dedication. Many try to emulate, charmingly in their naivete, Tangueras/os whose entire life has been identified with Tango. They are bound, inevitably, to fail in their quest, but why deny them pleasure in their failure? Lucia Michael escribió:There's been quite a bit of writing about dancers not taking classes to improve. Some have written women don't want to take classes. Others say its men. We really need to step away from the gender complaints and look at it from a people perspective. I've had this discussion many times with my teacher. "Why would anybody accept dancing terribly?" Well, if you're in a community of terrible dancers, you don't know good dancing so you don't have a basis of comparison. Not everybody wants to reach their potential. Some are content to dance badly. They don't want to dance well. Their attitude is "just show me enough so I can get up on the floor." Just because I want to reach my potential doesn't mean everybody wants to reach their potential. There are women I won't dance with because it's no fun for me. It feels like I'm driving a bus (before they had power steering.) Every dancer has to answer the question "Is no tango better than bad tango?" If "bad tango" is the answer, then better dancers are sending a message that quality doesn't count if they continue to dance with poor dancers. When quality becomes more important than quantity, maybe the word will get out that to dance with a better dancer, you have to be a better dancer. Everybody comes to tango for different reasons. For some, it's the dance. For others, this is where I find my next spouse or intimate other. I remember one man told me that a woman was "auditioning" men to be her boyfriend by dancing with them. Why don't we just call it straight? There are dancers with a professional attitude "I want to be my best" and there are those who just don't care. I remember Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion (the basis for the musical "My Fair Lady.") We can't turn other people into what we want them to be. I stopped dancing with one woman. It wasn't important for her to fix her pivot problem. I couldn't lead her in molinetes. I finally stopped banging my head against the wall telling her to pivot. I just stopped dancing with her. She's not happy about it. I told her to do something about it. She did. She found somebody else!! Now, it's his problem!! This blunt talk reminds me of the movie "A few good men." Col. Nathan R. Jessep yells "You can't handle the truth." Maybe that's why the better dancers don't tell the truth to those who don't want to improve. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC Two more weeks till the all night milonga in New York. Hoping N and O are there. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ˇgratis! ˇAbrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar From clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar Fri Apr 28 11:18:18 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SFIIBV025345 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:18:18 -0400 Received: from web36802.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36802.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.53]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3SFIBnL028863 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19658 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Apr 2006 15:18:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.ar; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OM02/mld0SEkKa2SZROP5wdhu5KUcInHRPYP3nOgJYqKwiZKlYIZK1Zazjs5HckJzUblbksqwnzlzTJCOVxdyndzq34fdRtaDvgNRAEqqCG4ZcCZ2rKcXNnS3f6E+5NT9Qufc73h0/LgjZivs4WJItBJeeCjQgamKt7YFFuXIY8= ; Message-ID: <20060428151811.19656.qmail@web36802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.232.162.3] by web36802.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:18:11 GMT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:18:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Alberto Gesualdi To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060428003314.19566.qmail@web31911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.247 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] More milonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:18:19 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 Dear friends listeros/as Here in Buenos Aires, the frequence of milonga tandas is... one tanda, then a 1 hour gap , then another tanda, and so on. Some milongas dancing places are keeping a non written rule that does not allow milongas dancing places to play other music than tangos-milongas-valsecitos , due to the special status this places have as dancing places , excepted from many of the new regulations for general dancing places . I noticed , that there is an increasing presence , of special doctored canyengue tandas. I am not qualified to say if this tandas could be considered tango tandas or milonga tandas, since it could be that in the same tanda "Derecho viejo" tango and "Orillera" milonga are included. Now the Tuba Tango group have launched a new CD with a good selection of canyengue and orillero style dancing tracks. Some weeks ago we went with my wife to club villa malcolm, where the milonga El Motivo helds each second saturday of the month, a dancing night. It was very interesting to watch a couple that we have seen before, they even have contested into same heat rounds on previous Tango Festivals of Buenos Aires, in the category amateurs. He is a young man, black long hair tied with a string , and she is a middle age woman , thinny and with white hair . They dance quite well the different tandas and they look to enjoy the dancing. But when the canyengue tanda came.... they were outstanding , not even they enjoy a lot the tanda, but they do dance in an excellent sincopated walking . This keeps me thinking on , how do you do when you want to dance canyengue at a milonga dancing place ?? Because you have to wait .. and to wait... until the canyengue tanda arrives , in the meantime you have to dance with your dancing partner just to keep warm :):) warm regard alberto gesualdi buenos aires "B.T." escribió: I dunnoo...milonga tempo is relentless. Its a move/movement monster, need to be fed a lot. I think a couple milonga tandas an evening is plenty. Hate to score a good partner & then have the music speed up. My opinion... B.T. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ˇgratis! ˇAbrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar From andy.ungureanu@t-online.de Fri Apr 28 12:19:28 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SGJS9t003202 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:19:28 -0400 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com (mailout05.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.82]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3SGJLrh020783 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fwd30.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1FZVgf-0003gP-00; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:21 +0200 Received: from [192.168.1.2] (VrheBBZD8elOqiKsnoLhdPwUogwc00LHeJ2SJcuD56ERpAXCY75CcI@[84.171.160.71]) by fwd30.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1FZVgX-0K5OV60; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:13 +0200 Message-ID: <44524082.8080907@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:14 +0200 From: Andy User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: tango-l@mit.edu References: <20060427212640.92788.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060427212640.92788.qmail@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ID: VrheBBZD8elOqiKsnoLhdPwUogwc00LHeJ2SJcuD56ERpAXCY75CcI X-TOI-MSGID: 63b208d6-cd61-4e78-8404-2235cc3f0040 X-Spam-Score: -1.757 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:19:28 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 steve pastor wrote: > That's all I can stand. I can't stands no more. > <> > Who exactly, pray tell, decides who is a teacher of tango? > It's simple, the (broader) community decides who is accepted as a teacher. The one who thinks he is a teacher, but doesn't have many students, nor regular classes, the one who is teaching during milongas is a "self appointed teacher" > And, oh by the way, just last Sunday two different women I dance with shared with me what was basically the same helpful tip. I welcomed this input, and plan to start using it. Were they "teaching"? Call it what you want. Just don't denigrate it. > No, they didn't teach. They gave you a tip to make them more comfortable dancing with you. Teaching on the dance floor is usually done by men who are not able to make the woman perform what they want and, instead of trying something else or let it be, begin to explain or show them steps, also called "verbal leading". They do it usually with beginner followers, other followers don't dance with them any longer. The beginner followers are impressed that someone "so experienced" cares to help them so much. Later they realize it was only bullshit. > Sometimes "the rules" are counter productive. > Yes, sometimes, especially when the rule is not properly understood ;-) Giving tips to someone you know (longer than 2 dances) is not that teaching meant by the rule. Giving tips to everyone, if they want to hear it or not, is insensitive and silly. Cheers Andy From dubrovay@juno.com Fri Apr 28 18:30:24 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3SMUO4b031606 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:30:24 -0400 Received: from outbound-mail.lax.untd.com (outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3SMUNZf020761 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail04.lax.untd.com (webmail04.lax.untd.com [10.131.27.144]) by smtpout07.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABCFFF5BAF9DZEA for (sender ); Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dubrovay@juno.com) by webmail04.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LN3YYR5P; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:29:12 PDT Received: from [65.102.160.131] by webmail04.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:28:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.102.160.131] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "dubrovay@juno.com" Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:28:55 GMT To: Tango-L@mit.edu X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Message-Id: <20060428.152912.9464.1069583@webmail04.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 1:1:3743188894 X-MAIL-INFO: 11f7daafdb5e1a1aabcada47a7023e2e3b8f9b4a5aba07b73b3b2a6abbba337ebe87af1eaf13dadef71aafdb X-UNTD-OriginStamp: 1cYcuUjW+WJpaGwyP+FHQ+E0HdCbKRaWV1Cr8IK70d0N0mgiglYeVQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.144|webmail04.lax.untd.com|webmail04.lax.untd.com|dubrovay@juno.com X-Spam-Score: -0.311 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Fw: Re: Where can I find more Milonga at milongas? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:30:24 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 Hello Steve: I am a DJ in two of the milongas here in Seattle and the tandas are 2 ta= ndas of 4 tangos, = 1 tanda of 3 valses, 2 tandas of 4 tangos, 1 tanda of 3 milongas and so = on, valses or milongas every 2 tango tandas. It has been working OK for many years and everybody is happy. I don't play milongas or valses or cortinas in the first 1/2 hour becaus= e the dancing floor is a little empty. Elemer in Redmond. ************************************************************************= ****************** = ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- As a DJ, I am sensitive to the number of people who choose to dance to = each tanda. In many communities where I have DJed, I find myself playin= g = fewer milongas (and candombes) at most of the milongas than I myself wou= ld = like to dance to. I find that I am able to play more milongas at tango = = festivals than in most communities--maybe because the general level of = dancing is higher among those who have the committment necessary to atte= nd = a festival. That makes me wonder if the lack of dancers on the floor when milongas a= re = being played may have something to do with a general lack of milonga or = = rhythm skills in the communities where there isn't much milonga dancing.= = Strange as it may seem, milonga classes aren't very frequently/widely = taught. And in many milonga classes, the instructors seem to emphasize = = complex movements over rhythm. In my own community, the number of people dancing milonga increased = dramatically after a number of us taught very basic milonga classes, and= = that allowed me to play more milongas at our milongas. With best regards, Steve = _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 23:54:34 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3T3sYOa019394 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:54:34 -0400 Received: from web54715.mail.yahoo.com (web54715.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.205]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3T3sWrG014706 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19254 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2006 03:54:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AQRkDrsa7U3uj0tUyjYQh+oxaMa4FalAT3xXGZsO55XlqspFigq3CLbynd8Rk7K/CIRXeCyHSfjoYZG8+U5Yyn2TfKkFAzEvjflJT9oOWY0Q6v7RnOJVsJrO0Al5YMjZIAwCyrkzDp7cd+qw4/X267mLcRTg6Yrb148R/avbL9U= ; Message-ID: <20060429035432.19252.qmail@web54715.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54715.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:54:32 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:54:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Lois Donnay , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <00f701c66a1f$43194da0$640fa8c0@Compaqdesk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:54:34 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 Dear Lois: --- Lois Donnay wrote: "Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the floor." By your definition, I would be a good tango teacher, because I have introduced a lot of people to Argentine tango, and most of them are now great dancers (don't ask me, ask others about that...lol)....BUT, I am not a tango teacher. I just encourage people to have some fun, and they do it on their own. I think encouraging people to dance tango often, and providing venues for them to dance their asses off is much more important than telling people what to do. The Argentines are really great dancers because they start dancing tango when they are 6 years old, and they learn it mostly from their close friends. They have their own tango. Argentines do not look like a teacher. That is bad. They look like themselves. They are individuals, not programmed robots. --- Lois Donnay wrote: " How about another suggestion - ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*. Especially if you are not a professional dancer who can pick up dances easily." I have found that the really great Argentine tango dancers, usually have little professional dance training, and they have learned Argentine tango from their friends. The people with professional dance training are usually the problem on the dance floor in Argentine tango. They are usually quite stiff and rigid. They always try to "look good" and execute the perfect step, but they do so usually without following the music. They have a hard time with improvisation, and prefer to do preset choreography. The women often back-lead the men, if they get a chance. They usually only dance well with their friends who have memorized and practiced the same steps they know. They cannot dance well with people outside of their own little preselected group of friends. To me, this is not a good thing. I will always vote for the musicians, who can dance with anyone. They can follow the music, and will do so, even if the step is not perfect. To me, that is more fun, and you know what? It works! The music is what ties the dance partners together, not the perfect step. What makes a great dancer is dancing. My opinion. PS- Practice makes perfect, not teaching... Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Lois Donnay wrote: > How about another suggestion - ask a person whose > dancing you admire *where > they learned*. Especially if you are not a > professional dancer who can pick > up dances easily. Go to the teacher who has put the > most good dancers on the > floor. > > Lois Donnay > Minneapolis, MN > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu > > [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of > Derik Rawson > > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:22 AM > > To: Tango Tango; tango-l@mit.edu > > Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed > tango > > teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd > Law) > > > > > > Dear All: > > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > > > My view on learning tango: > > > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like > them, > > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do > not > > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > > make that decision yourself. > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, > his > > > propensity to learn > > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation > Halt > > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > > Tango > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 00:03:42 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3T43gOI020676 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:03:42 -0400 Received: from web54701.mail.yahoo.com (web54701.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.191]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3T43eo3024366 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 74547 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2006 04:03:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IFKS5+QAw9Tdr6rtlHq7CKKB2t/nE/G9hhiuNGqzjyI5CLqNmZS0oTxn4QqVquxu2V4+oYCSRl7EBUWSscEgZTg2OELd8M1BUf/hH/OBNpqK5Dyeck9UFMcxdfxcwQVmAbjS01pmU+TPHCVqwA6rU3QGVx2G4SH5jl0crmEyHao= ; Message-ID: <20060429040340.74545.qmail@web54701.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54701.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:03:40 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060427222045.7410.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:03:42 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 Dear Tine: Everyone learns something, from everyone, but if you leave out the forward ocho, I will look elsewhere for that...lol. PS- I dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, but I get bored with it, and so do most Argentine Tango dancers around the world, except the US Americans, which do it "all the time". There is more to life than close embrace. The forward ocho is part of that...lol. Have a great day. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Yale Tango Club wrote: > I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from > me! Thank you very much. > If you disregard this warning, you might learn > something. Maybe even some milonguero tango, oh, NO! > Tine > > PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I > appointed myself teacher, and went on to appoint 10 > more just like me. We teach classes for free. If we > didn't do it, every week or whenever there's > beginners needing classes, who would? > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear All: > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate" > > My view on learning tango: > > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." > > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them, > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You > make that decision yourself. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Tango Tango wrote: > > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states: > > > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his > > propensity to learn > > decreases at the same rate" > > > > > > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt > > Sacrilege & Heresy In > > Tango > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From patangos@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 00:35:11 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3T4ZBCT025779 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:35:11 -0400 Received: from web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.248]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3T4Z5W9026365 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 31573 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2006 04:35:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=TnBwihBakE1/0OB9w6VvOVtDJf39ZRf0sSv828oEY4YTwJ+Zv8YmY/WI+061s6zEeejhvt43yEfkbbCntP1MMkx1Z+9TuKlaFCwLsmvsEwFAsYMo9Sj15XYsh2NbL9C09QrkaxmvDn4UEnVzc2JcSejYL2kOxBkXf8EGj+wifTI= ; Message-ID: <20060429043505.31571.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.102.229] by web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:35:05 PDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:35:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060429040340.74545.qmail@web54701.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:35:11 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 Hi Derik, Next time you see Andres, ask him to teach you how to lead a front ocho in close embrace...lol. Then maybe the rest of us won't have to hear about your little problem any more...lol. Sean P.S. Please don't anyone mention to Derik about all of the professional dance training that Andres has had...lol. He seems to be the only self appointed tango teacher that Derik respects. I'd hate to see that ruined...lol. --- Derik Rawson wrote: There is more to life than close embrace. The forward ocho is part of that...lol. --- Derik Rawson also wrote: The people with professional dance training are usually the problem on the dance floor in Argentine tango. They are usually quite stiff and rigid. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET Sat Apr 29 02:55:37 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3T6tbHA009804 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:55:37 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 8566 ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:56:10 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 6530 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:56:11 -0400 Received: from defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with SMTP ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:56:10 EDT X-Warning: mitvma.mit.edu: Host defout.telus.net claimed to be priv-edtnes44.telusplanet.net Received: from priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net ([205.206.127.3]) by priv-edtnes44.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with ESMTP id <20060429065436.CGNM14926.priv-edtnes44.telusplanet.net@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net> for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:54:36 -0600 Received: from Warrior (s205-206-127-3.ab.hsia.telus.net [205.206.127.3]) by priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net (BorderWare MXtreme Infinity Mail Firewall) with ESMTP id BBNP3GS7VW for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:54:35 -0600 (MDT) From: "Bruno Romero" To: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:54:26 -0600 Message-ID: <00ea01c66b59$c1c40bf0$2801a8c0@Warrior> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcZrWcE8UGs7Bc7lREeKr3xYO5YNzg== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] Translation of Tango Part # 3 X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 06:55:37 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 The origins of the word tango/ LATITUDES SPANISH COURSES IN BA =20 Dear Members this is the last delivery of the origins of the word = tango. When in BA consult us for Spanish Courses at www.latitudesweb.com.ar =20 or call 155-262-2719 =20 About some tango terms (SOBRE ALGUNOS TIRMINOS TANGUEROS) =20 Por Eduardo Rubin Bernal =20 Academico Titular =20 Academia Nacional del Tango Today: Tango III =20 As we have said in a previous note, the word tango is of African origin, which may have come from the Portuguese, and may have arrived to the = African continent by the middle of the 15th century. The historian, Roberto = Selles, also agrees that Tango is an African word, although he does not profess = its Lusitanian origin, he accepts that tango is an aboriginal term brought = to America by the slaves. Anyhow, both ways of thought are not conflicting given that from the Portuguese=92s early presence in the area to the beginnings of black slave trade over one century had passed by. The term Tango well could be considered a =93borrowed=94 term linguistically = speaking in some or all African tribal languages.=20 =20 =20 Roberto Selles, in his work on the Origen of Tango, (Ediciones Hicuba, Buenos Aires, 2004), mentions the Cuban, Fernando Ortiz, and his work Glossary of Afro-negrismos, that some African languages such as those = from the inhabited coast of Calabar, at the extreme of the Niger River, that = to dance is called =93tamgu=94 and =93tuggu=94. Likewise, the Soninki or = Sarakolom inhabitants of Sudan were aware of the word =93ntiangu=94. Also, F. = Ortiz says that the Mandingas from West Sudan called =93dango=94 to dance, and = called tomton or tamtamngo to the drum. Along these lines, Selles and Nestor = Ortiz Oderigo confirm what we said above, adding that in several African = idioms =93tamgz=94 and =93taggu=94 mean to dance and =93tamtamngo=94 means = drum. =20 =20 Selles concludes that the word =93tamtamngo=94 formed by the = onomatopoeia =93tam tam=94 and the dissonance =93ongo=94 changed into =93tango=94 with the = inceptions of =93drum=94 =93a place where to dance=94, =93dance=94, and =93rhythm=94. = In the same way, it arrives in America, South of Spain and Portugal from the spoken forms by blacks slaves during the 16th and 17th century. This is in reference naturally to the African dances and rhythms distant from our = denomination of our tango, although we now know it had a lot to do with the origin of Argentine Tango. =20 Afterwards, towards the beginnings of the 19th century the word was = already present in Andaluc=EDa, Spain and in Buenos Aires, Argentina, but not = yet connected to the naming of the upcoming native musical specie from Rio = de la Plata. =20 Perhaps it was Carlos Vega, the great Argentine musicologist, the first = one in comprehending and explaining the long path taken by the peculiar word =93Tango=94. =20 In signing off of this series of notes we quote sparingly. The word = Tango did not apply in the time mentioned above to the type of porte=F1o = singing, which had not yet been born. Tango then was simply the Andalucian Tango. = It is not after the 1900=92s, when as a result of a diverse upbringing of a = wider spectrum of music under the name of Tango, the composers are required to utilize a wider palette of musical resources. The musical composers find = in the Milonga the next of kin of the Andalucian Tango, but with a stronger precedence and of richer form than the latter, and in keeping with under = the familiar and imported name of Tango. However, all that it remains from = the Andalucian Tango is the name, which can now be called Argentine Tango. =20 Chan=85Chan. Until next time =20 (translated by Bruno) =20 =20 =20 =20 From dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com Sat Apr 29 04:47:28 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3T8lSBc026882 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:47:28 -0400 Received: from smtp-02.arnet.com.ar (smtp-02.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.22]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3T8lPu2028507 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 04:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 18267 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2006 03:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (201.252.14.112) by smtp-02.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 29 Apr 2006 03:46:10 -0000 Message-ID: <4453280A.8030903@lavidacondeby.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 05:47:06 -0300 From: Deby Novitz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] You lead I follow X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:47:28 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 OK, here I am again your tango big mouth from Buenos Aires... Pray tell me Gabriel...if the man does not lead, how am I suppose to follow? Or is it as one confused gentlemen told me in San Francisco a few years back...since I did not take the classes (Take your pick - Pablo Veron, Fabian Salas, Pulpo, etc.) that is why I did not know the steps....If I have to dance with you looking at your feet it is because I have to figure out what the hell you are doing...if you aren't a beginner...this is what I call a mercy dance...with a guy who cannot lead. Igor: A woman too, must understand the music and know how to interpret it. This is what I have been told many times about me - I understand the music. The women's rhythm does not always have to be what the man is dancing but it has to move with his. A woman can play with another part of the cadencia, a man who understands the music understands her...and waits. This is the seduction of tango..not 500 fancy steps in 2 minutes. (I know Igor you did not infer that, it is my own sarcastic attitude.) Sean: By your logic when I was still commuting to Buenos Aires from San Francisco, I should have created many problems in San Francisco. While I probably did create many problems (such is my nature) I doubt you will find that it was because I danced with men who were not at my level or set impossible standards for other women...and dragged down my own dancing at the same time. I danced with whoever asked me in my own community - because this is where I lived. This is where I came to dance...and I wanted to. Teaching vs helping on the dance floor...unless the other person asks..why don't you just enjoy the music. If the dance was that painful, smile at the end of the tanda and say thank you...and don't dance with them again. No one likes unsolicited advice. A word to those women who do nothing but complain about the level of the men in their community. Go dance salsa. (They have usually had a few trips to Buenos Aires which of course now makes them an expert.) I don't lead, I will never lead, I don't want to lead..how can I have the passion for the music that I have in the arms of a women? I cannot, it is just that simple. You ask anyone here who dances and they will tell you the passion is for the music and to share it with another embraced while moving together. Why is it here in Buenos Aires when you see women dancing together they are not Argentines? Saying you have to lead and dance with a woman because there are no good men to dance with? Hmmm...no good men, wasn't that the title of a book sometime back? Or was that a good man is hard to find or a .....say good night Deby... From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 11:15:46 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TFFkkL029646 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:15:46 -0400 Received: from web54710.mail.yahoo.com (web54710.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.200]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3TFFj7J002020 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 99474 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2006 15:15:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EilkM/S0PqKwD2kwTvSiLxrDMsk1dIix+Ie3lq72mwjyFbwLW3RgUH0C0ZolSWYdfVlXUNGdNC3lxmvKltBpf5UhcWlXK4eDJmQs4IGrKch0ml7ZvvIGl8WMzSxANBs73gQ0lq6+5Xn1bQ1akj3eXkd/6s+c5mI7FXiKC9woG44= ; Message-ID: <20060429151545.99472.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:15:45 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060429043505.31571.qmail@web30615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:15:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 52 Dear Sean: 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he dances. 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the other "close embrace all the time people", to open up the embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then close the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the spice of life, right? Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: > Hi Derik, > > Next time you see Andres, ask him to teach you how > to > lead a front ocho in close embrace...lol. Then maybe > the rest of us won't have to hear about your little > problem any more...lol. > > Sean > > P.S. Please don't anyone mention to Derik about all > of > the professional dance training that Andres has > had...lol. He seems to be the only self appointed > tango teacher that Derik respects. I'd hate to see > that ruined...lol. > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > There is more to life than close embrace. The > forward > ocho is part of that...lol. > > --- Derik Rawson also wrote: > > The people with professional dance training are > usually the problem on the dance floor in Argentine > tango. They are usually quite stiff and rigid. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From patangos@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 11:27:21 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TFRLEP031443 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:27:21 -0400 Received: from web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.128]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3TFRLV3000692 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 79775 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Apr 2006 15:27:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3HKD1ef5h8xtol7rJDUcNKUYjfbThDjo0RY7AI3APwk0qnWuOR9DoFkdWzUW1BW6+Ioimr1gR2SLtG3eEettR7Yq6G/0JrGNcBpqVMrjDIthgyOfH/gm9W++iDLZBmSLx3hhuCLETq7KRhQH+jZ5GDNNngXVWBAJfXzOamgFMWY= ; Message-ID: <20060429152720.79773.qmail@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.197.121] by web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:27:20 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060429151545.99472.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:27:22 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 53 Hi Derik, Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace most of the time, I can tell you that it is quite possible to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts indicate that your relative inexperience lets you believe that such is not possible. I suggest that if you worked more on the close-embrace you will discover a lot more options that you are missing out on. And you might understand better why so many people, not just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace "all-the-time". Personally, dancing close allows me to better communicate with my partner. This is the spice that adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men who can listen. Happy tangos, whatever your style. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Sean: > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he dances. > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the other > "close embrace all the time people", to open up the > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then > close > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the spice > of > life, right? > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From meredithleeklein@gmail.com Sat Apr 29 12:15:06 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TGF6PG006438 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:15:06 -0400 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.180]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3TGEX2D027547 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 39so2570639pyu for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:15:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=EOAT8g4SI0aSwrg4R30ExTWC3lMxWlgMZS4at/p8ZcremOZT7/B/8h1KCmzZNwykVJ/fm/lFAFYyUZJ4UHwtx+OsjtgWGS2pQPFCdWtdDg+gyfdhYeoG+gVYGb68p0EY0aIrZALEdLqjBgPVvgCPAItGinuwZbvBULA0id3F1rE= Received: by 10.35.31.14 with SMTP id i14mr588295pyj; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.102.19 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34cd2b720604290915j4f61d93fg3693080e8ca08fef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:15:01 -0400 From: "Meredith Klein" To: Tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k3TGF6PG006438 Subject: [Tango-L] Historic Footage: Geraldine Rojas at age 13 with Andres Amarilla X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:15:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 When Andres Amarilla was 17, he partnered with Geraldine Rojas (then age 13) for a year. Together, they performed over 20 times at Buenos Aires milongas, including Sunderland, Akarence, and Sin Rumbo. After a lot of searching, we were finally able to locate a video of one of Andres and Geraldine's performances. This one was given in October 1993 at the milonga Glorias Argentinas as an homage to the legendary Petroleo. You can see Petroleo at the end of the video, standing behind the table in the center of the frame. Take a look: http://andresamarilla.com/video.htm From dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com Sat Apr 29 12:35:59 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TGZx0w009957 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:35:59 -0400 Received: from smtp-01.arnet.com.ar (smtp-01.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.24]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3TGZvA1022769 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:35:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6254 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2006 13:33:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (201.252.14.112) by smtp-01.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 29 Apr 2006 13:33:41 -0000 Message-ID: <445395D9.1050205@lavidacondeby.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:35:37 -0300 From: Deby Novitz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Forward Ochos X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:35:59 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 If you cannot do a forward ocho in close embrace it is because your posture is not correct. You are blocking the woman from moving forward with your body. If she has bad posture as well, then she cannot move forward because the combination of bad posture and being blocked will not allow it. There is no other reason to not be able to do a forward ocho in close embrace. AND I dance close embrace almost all of the time and I am never bored... Posture/balance/axis ....says it all. From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Sat Apr 29 16:13:58 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TKDwmr008973 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:13:58 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail03.cavtel.net [64.83.1.223]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3TKDq2Q003277 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from michaeldesktop (unverified [67.62.32.68]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail03) with ESMTP id 3717394 for multiple; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:13:51 -0400 Message-ID: <009401c66bc9$74416880$44203e43@michaeldesktop> From: "Michael" To: "Tango L" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:14:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 124, in=109, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 67.62.32.68 X-Spam-Score: -2.224 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: Michael Subject: [Tango-L] Leading front ochos in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:13:58 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 Leading front ochos in close embrace IF the man knows how to move. This = is one of the few occasions he is moving backwards. The person moving = backwards has to get out of the way of the person coming forward. When = leading the woman to step backward, he has to lead the woman to get out = of his way. When he moves backward, he has to get himself out of the way = so that the woman can come forward. This isn't a posture problem; this = is a movement problem. Men should go to a followers class or follow at a practica. It might = open their eyes. It certainly opened mine. I'll never forget the day a = woman led me in back ochos. She stepped sideways without waiting for me = to finish my pivot to come the other direction. That's the day I = understood what my teacher had been telling me for months and clearly = didn't understand "WAIT FOR THE WOMAN!!" Following taught me how to move = backwards. Men who don't learn how to move backwards are like cars that = don't have a reverse gear. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC Teaching a workshop next week comparing dancing to public speaking I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango From binkster@binkster.net Sat Apr 29 16:48:28 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3TKmSDY014132 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:48:28 -0400 Received: from mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.4]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3TKmQNh025076 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 26334 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2006 20:48:25 -0000 Received: from dsl092-189-065.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO [192.168.1.101]) (binksternet@[66.92.189.65]) (envelope-sender ) by mail2.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 29 Apr 2006 20:48:25 -0000 Message-ID: <4453D1D7.3080600@binkster.net> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:51:35 -0700 From: Michael Knowles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Argentines are really great X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:48:28 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 > From: Derik Rawson > The Argentines are really great dancers because they > start dancing tango when they are 6 years old, and > they learn it mostly from their close friends. They > have their own tango. Argentines do not look like a > teacher. That is bad. They look like themselves. They > are individuals, not programmed robots. How long are you going to flog that dead horse, Derik? There are millions of Argentines including MANY who can't dance a lick. Others who dance very well didn't start until later than 6. Still others copy their teacher. Jeez. Where I work the boys in black t-shirts would say you have a 'chub' for Argentines. When I was in BsAs last week I saw a lot of dancers at milongas who were skilled. More were *not* skilled, or were flaunting their skill in an asocial way such as cutting in and out of dance 'lanes' on the floor and charging in front of other dancers in order to execute a trick move {cough cough El Turco cough cough}. Most of the natives I saw who were not skilled were at some early stage of learning. Others lost (or never had a) connection to the music and their partner, performing steps instead of dancing together. Basically, there are as many kinds of Argentines as you can imagine. Or more. ;) -- Michael 'Bink' Knowles binkster@binkster.net www.binkster.net From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 20:40:09 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3U0e9j7014033 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:40:09 -0400 Received: from web54707.mail.yahoo.com (web54707.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.197]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3U0e3Tb028231 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 59635 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 00:40:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SqP4dpSYbHxDgym9whXdwx34RG0IYVi+nWdv71x5KB7fVM918DUp2ALIFI1MwfOSruEkWG0Zi7gqsB6SdwL75unPjHNNNibPwAi9CVBXhnGQJkf1MsM9rLUJ5aB+DrSlatgrrYP1sZH6WdTTLqEyqtfAQ3DbKWL7QT9TBL+hFKc= ; Message-ID: <20060430004002.59632.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54707.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:40:02 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:40:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060429152720.79773.qmail@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:40:10 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 Dear Trini: What are you two talking about....lol. I do front ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace. As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to vary the embrace. You should know how to be connected with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like keeping the bandondeon closed all the time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience and lack of understanding probably falls more on the side of the people who do close embrace all the time, and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a break....lol. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: > Hi Derik, > > Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace > most > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite > possible > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts > indicate that your relative inexperience lets you > believe that such is not possible. I suggest that > if > you worked more on the close-embrace you will > discover > a lot more options that you are missing out on. And > you might understand better why so many people, not > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace > "all-the-time". > > Personally, dancing close allows me to better > communicate with my partner. This is the spice that > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men > who > can listen. > > Happy tangos, whatever your style. > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > Dear Sean: > > > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he > dances. > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the > other > > "close embrace all the time people", to open up > the > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then > > close > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the > spice > > of > > life, right? > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's > most popular social dance. > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From patangos@yahoo.com Sat Apr 29 22:52:48 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3U2qmnu001140 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:52:48 -0400 Received: from web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.247]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3U2qkJo020469 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 64603 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 02:52:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XUvDcXUelpu7RJlr8cp7omMCA4KB7dDyM+dE6iNSme+rlLG0Y32zE0ph6XJ5ukG0lvzFz1sxmoiUpG/nap6E5qDbamXRrBt+ydvbUFazgbiCqCpTqXVeg860930nql7ZVe4WVvMuODHCb+A6QRjX7G6lXy3H3Rts1tBnwPCruNo= ; Message-ID: <20060430025246.64601.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.117.235] by web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:52:46 PDT Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060430004002.59632.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:52:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 Dear Derik, In your post, you seem to blame the close-embrace style for your boredom rather than, well, yourself. If you don't want to do close-embrace all the time, fine. But why place a value judgement on those who do? If you do not understand why people choose to do close-embrace all-the-time, then I can only guess that 1) you don't know enough about close-embrace to keep it interesting, 2) you do not value the same things close-embrace people do, or 3) both. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is rude for you to place your values on others on something so personal and intimate. "Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like keeping the bandondeon closed all the time...ridiculous!" is a value judgement. If I am misreading you, then let me apologize in advance. I do wish, though, that you would express yourself in a more thoughtful manner. Trini de Pittsburgh --- Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Trini: > > What are you two talking about....lol. I do front > ochos all the in variations of close and open > embrace. > As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to > vary the embrace. You should know how to be > connected > with your partner, no matter what. > Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience > and lack of understanding probably falls more on the > side of the people who do close embrace all the > time, > and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching > the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a > break....lol. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" > wrote: > > > Hi Derik, > > > > Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace > > most > > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite > > possible > > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts > > indicate that your relative inexperience lets you > > believe that such is not possible. I suggest that > > if > > you worked more on the close-embrace you will > > discover > > a lot more options that you are missing out on. > And > > you might understand better why so many people, > not > > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace > > "all-the-time". > > > > Personally, dancing close allows me to better > > communicate with my partner. This is the spice > that > > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men > > who > > can listen. > > > > Happy tangos, whatever your style. > > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > > > Dear Sean: > > > > > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he > > dances. > > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the > > other > > > "close embrace all the time people", to open up > > the > > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then > > > close > > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the > > spice > > > of > > > life, right? > > > > > > Derik > > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's > > most popular social dance. > > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From crown@QUICKSILVER.NET.NZ Sat Apr 29 23:24:16 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3U3OGtN005787 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:24:16 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 9904 ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:24:49 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 7974 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:24:50 -0400 Received: from drone3.qsi.net.nz [202.89.128.3] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:24:49 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by drone3.qsi.net.nz Received: (qmail 1167 invoked by uid 1027); 30 Apr 2006 03:24:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20060430032415.1162.qmail@drone3.qsi.net.nz> X-Originating-Ip: [201.254.8.225] From: "Crown Associates Ltd" To: "TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:24:14 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: crown@quicksilver.net.nz Subject: [Tango-L] Iyengar Yoga in BsAs X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:24:16 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 Sorry for sending this to the list, however it may be of interest to others as well as Rick Jones whose email address I have managed to lose. Hi Rick, my partner has found this Yoga place and highly recommends it to you, she says the place is a delight as are the people, The teacher is highly qualified. BA phone 4781 2605 Best wishes Robert From astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp Sun Apr 30 00:01:25 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3U41Ogc011109 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:01:25 -0400 Received: from mvs4.plala.or.jp (c158132.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.158.132]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3U41MFr017491 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soteccomputer ([218.47.217.104]) by mvs4.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20060430040121.RRU9833.mvs4.plala.or.jp@soteccomputer>; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:01:21 +0900 Message-ID: <004a01c66c08$97937780$a443fea9@soteccomputer> From: "astrid" To: "Michael Knowles" , References: <4453D1D7.3080600@binkster.net> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:45:58 +0900 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.39 X-Spam-Level: * (1.39) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Argentines are really great X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:01:25 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 > > From: Derik Rawson > > The Argentines are really great dancers because they > > start dancing tango when they are 6 years old, . Basically, there are as many kinds of > Argentines as you can imagine. Or more. ;) > -- > Michael 'Bink' Knowles As a matter of fact, there even are Argentines who have lived in Japan for a number of years, at some point hit hard times with their business, then took tango lessons, and later declared themselves to be tango teacher who has danced tango for 15 years or so. One of them takes credit for having been born in San Telmo, for having been submerged in tango from before he learned to walk. The first time I met him in Tokyo, in a tango workshop, he could not even lead a salida, but he does not remember that now. Having said that, they are still nice guys, you just can't believe their inflated resume'. Astrid From DHodgson@Tango777.com Sun Apr 30 05:59:48 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3U9xm8e029959 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:59:48 -0400 Received: from mail.servingit.net (mail.servingit.net [67.19.48.62]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3U9xkPV024167 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 05:59:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 7500 invoked by uid 89); 30 Apr 2006 09:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO leatherdancer) (4.228.30.5) by mail.servingit.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2006 09:59:43 -0000 From: "David Hodgson" To: "Tango L list" Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:02:34 -0600 Message-ID: <001e01c66c3d$34825780$0220000a@leatherdancer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20060430004002.59632.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 Thread-Index: AcZr8DdB6KYeLxrwQ+amvXO2Iaz7wgASo9qg X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:59:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 Humm, just saw this post. Ok, I will jump in. Derik, I am going to get down to business here (only for a moment). The way your talking and what I hear, of your interpretation of Tango is. 1. You think and therefore assume too much. 2. Dance the patterns and steps, therefore talk, and therefore all below the belt. My question to you Derik. What is tango to you? (Trini, when we have the opportunity to dance together I request you wear the shoes that make you growl. I also ask you make this obvious as I am a man, Thank you.) David~ To the moderators, will only post positive feed back from here on out, I just needed to ask the question, TKX10 -----Original Message----- From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Derik Rawson Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:40 PM To: Trini y Sean (PATangoS); Tango-L Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." Dear Trini: What are you two talking about....lol. I do front ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace. As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to vary the embrace. You should know how to be connected with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like keeping the bandondeon closed all the time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience and lack of understanding probably falls more on the side of the people who do close embrace all the time, and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a break....lol. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: > Hi Derik, > > Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace > most > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite > possible > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts > indicate that your relative inexperience lets you > believe that such is not possible. I suggest that > if > you worked more on the close-embrace you will > discover > a lot more options that you are missing out on. And > you might understand better why so many people, not > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace > "all-the-time". > > Personally, dancing close allows me to better > communicate with my partner. This is the spice that > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men > who > can listen. > > Happy tangos, whatever your style. > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > Dear Sean: > > > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he > dances. > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the > other > > "close embrace all the time people", to open up > the > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then > > close > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the > spice > > of > > life, right? > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's > most popular social dance. > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From tl2@chrisjj.com Sun Apr 30 12:01:09 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UG19aQ030450 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:01:09 -0400 Received: from xrelay03.mail2web.com (xrelay03.mail2web.com [168.144.1.54]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UG13xE024144 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [168.144.251.242] (helo=M2W126.mail2web.com) by xrelay03.mail2web.com with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1FaEM1-0007Mj-3H; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:01:03 -0400 Message-ID: <380-22006403016422312@M2W126.mail2web.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Originating-IP: 84.161.121.225 X-URL: http://mail2web.com/ Sender: chrisjj@chrisjj.com From: "tl2@chrisjj.com" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:04:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k3UG19aQ030450 Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: tl2@chrisjj.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:01:09 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Christopher L. Everett wrote: > It is possible for a follower to be essentially useless as a dance > partner. ... The worst is when they think they know what they are > doing. The universal constant with them is that they ... never > took beginner classes. In my experience, the universal constant amongst useless partners is that they /did/ take beginner classes. Most notably the girls crippled by steps that the've had drilled into them before getting a chance to learn to follow, or even to experience the feel of a real lead. Yes they 'think they know what they are doing' - inevitably, given that's what the lesson is telling them every time they succeed in copying the demonstrated material. A girl that never took beginner classes exhibits none of these dysfuctions. She does not interpret two steps on the side to mean she must cross. A pause does not send her into a loop of auto-ochos. She does not take every simple squeeze of a foot to be a sandwich that triggers a step-over. How could she? In learning on the dancefloor, she never encounters these class fabrications. Even when unfortunate enough to get a leader programmed full of them. Because just like his teacher he rarely if ever leads them, and instead (just like his teacher) resorts to verbal instruction. She learns... but not to do the fake steps. She learns to say "No". I recall the advice of a great dancer who was also a needs-must teacher: "Don't take classes. Not even my classes. Classes are for those who cannot dance." Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 13:12:41 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UHCfoA010137 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:12:41 -0400 Received: from web54713.mail.yahoo.com (web54713.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.203]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UHCZBN022496 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:12:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 34463 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 17:12:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5k4GyAzdFjFBMy8Ri6yJmebRxv5oezSUAZ5mehxC6gCO96j7D50yu5iKAT1/N6VjBv503Nqw1TsYLtUDSOV6hx4Aor7I4Gb0DU03/NYrfASvOinr+oKMNIuhddd3lZ8z9HCztxLm0Nxx0w3fwBFWtyW3hSPiVkK/MKIn5BAnx2I= ; Message-ID: <20060430171234.34459.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54713.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:12:34 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:12:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060430025246.64601.qmail@web30614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers." X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:12:41 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 Dear Trini: --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: "it is rude for you to place your values on others on something so personal and intimate." The problem I have with the "close embrace all the time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to spread that ignorance around, by promoting their own inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all the time people" would just dance the way they want to and leave other people alone (not try to teach their ignorance), then I would have no problem with them at all. I agree with you that personal taste is OK. Everyone has their own tango. I have said this many times. We dancers should choose our tango teachers ourselves. We should not have a tango teachers recruit and choose us as their victims, and tell us that we are inexperienced fools. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: > Dear Derik, > > In your post, you seem to blame the close-embrace > style for your boredom rather than, well, yourself. > If you don't want to do close-embrace all the time, > fine. But why place a value judgement on those who > do? > > If you do not understand why people choose to do > close-embrace all-the-time, then I can only guess > that > 1) you don't know enough about close-embrace to keep > it interesting, 2) you do not value the same things > close-embrace people do, or 3) both. There's > nothing > wrong with that, but it is rude for you to place > your > values on others on something so personal and > intimate. "Keeping the embrace closed all the time > is > like keeping the bandondeon closed all the > time...ridiculous!" is a value judgement. > > If I am misreading you, then let me apologize in > advance. I do wish, though, that you would express > yourself in a more thoughtful manner. > > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > Dear Trini: > > > > What are you two talking about....lol. I do front > > ochos all the in variations of close and open > > embrace. > > As you have heard it said many times, "The > embrace > > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > to > > vary the embrace. You should know how to be > > connected > > with your partner, no matter what. > > Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like > > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > > time...ridiculous! My view is that the > inexperience > > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > the > > side of the people who do close embrace all the > > time, > > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > teaching > > the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a > > break....lol. > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > > --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Derik, > > > > > > Trini, here. As someone who dances > close-embrace > > > most > > > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite > > > possible > > > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts > > > indicate that your relative inexperience lets > you > > > believe that such is not possible. I suggest > that > > > if > > > you worked more on the close-embrace you will > > > discover > > > a lot more options that you are missing out on. > > And > > > you might understand better why so many people, > > not > > > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace > > > "all-the-time". > > > > > > Personally, dancing close allows me to better > > > communicate with my partner. This is the spice > > that > > > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those > men > > > who > > > can listen. > > > > > > Happy tangos, whatever your style. > > > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > > > > > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Sean: > > > > > > > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he > > > dances. > > > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the > > > other > > > > "close embrace all the time people", to open > up > > > the > > > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and > then > > > > close > > > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the > > > spice > > > > of > > > > life, right? > > > > > > > > Derik > > > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > > > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango > Pittsburgh's > > > most popular social dance. > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Tango-L mailing list > > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's > most popular social dance. > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Sun Apr 30 13:20:40 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UHKeVA011380 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:20:40 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail01.cavtel.net [64.83.1.221]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UHKccf001319 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from michaeldesktop (unverified [67.62.32.68]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail01) with ESMTP id 18270956 for multiple; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:20:20 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c66c7a$617d7660$44203e43@michaeldesktop> From: "Michael" To: , "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , "Tango-L" References: <20060430004002.59632.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:20:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 407, in=504, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 67.62.32.68 X-Spam-Score: -2.224 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: Michael Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from Derek (self appointed tango teacher) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:20:40 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 Derek: I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only exceeded by your = ignorance of close embrace. Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do = that? The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. If they aren't = in contact (facing the correct direction), the light doesn't come on. To = dance open would break the circuit between the batteries. I don't want = to break the circuit with my partner.=20 I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." = WRONG!! My heart opens and closes like a bandeneon, not the embrace. = Sometimes I can also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly = adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for a figure, but = there's NO good reason to go from close to open. If couples have to go = to open for a figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not appropriate = to the social floor. Or one, if not both, partners are so stiff they = can't dance close because their stiff arms prevents them from getting = close. Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in Washington and I'm going = out to enjoy it instead of reading Derek's posts. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance with N. and O. I thought = I knew close embrace. These women dance closer embrace. Derek unfortunately wrote: I do front ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace. As = you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to vary the embrace. = You should know how to be connected with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the embrace closed all the = time is like keeping the bandondeon closed all the time...ridiculous! My view is = that the inexperience and lack of understanding probably falls more on the side of the = people who do close embrace all the time, and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching the front ocho = entirely....like Tine. Give me a break....lol. From dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Sun Apr 30 15:04:34 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UJ4Y2g027150 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:04:34 -0400 Received: from web86605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web86605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.13.27]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UJ4SjH017627 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55929 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 19:04:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20060430190428.55927.qmail@web86605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.158.171.130] by web86605.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:04:28 BST X-RocketYMMF: daniel.iannarelli@btinternet.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:04:28 +0100 (BST) From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <004101c66c7a$617d7660$44203e43@michaeldesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.247 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from Derek (self appointed tango teacher) X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:04:35 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 I think Derek must be someone playing 'Devil's Advocate' and just having a laugh. If not, I think it would be quite funny to watch him dance. I wonder who taught him - or tried to teach him... Sorry, Derek, but you come up with a load of - in fact, mostly - utter guff! Dani Michael wrote: Derek: I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. If they aren't in contact (facing the correct direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance open would break the circuit between the batteries. I don't want to break the circuit with my partner. I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from close to open. If couples have to go to open for a figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close because their stiff arms prevents them from getting close. Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead of reading Derek's posts. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance with N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These women dance closer embrace. Derek unfortunately wrote: I do front ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace. As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to vary the embrace. You should know how to be connected with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like keeping the bandondeon closed all the time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience and lack of understanding probably falls more on the side of the people who do close embrace all the time, and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a break....lol. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From martin@waxman.net Sun Apr 30 15:24:36 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UJOacf030553 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:24:36 -0400 Received: from smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net (mx12.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.11]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UJOY3D012162 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 207-237-222-124.c3-0.avec-ubr12.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com (HELO PatMar.waxman.net) ([207.237.222.124]) by smtp01.lnh.mail.rcn.net with ESMTP; 30 Apr 2006 15:25:06 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.04,167,1144036800"; d="scan'208"; a="195380955:sNHT29097890" Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060430150812.033f5870@waxman.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:24:33 -0400 To: Tango-L , Derik Rawson From: Martin Waxman Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -1.395 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Argentine Tango X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:24:36 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Derik, In support of Michael Ditkoff and others, please stop posting until you learn at least something about Argentine Tango. Try to learn just a little bit. Your foolish posts show not only your ignorance, but lack of AT experience. Marty Waxman New York City's Thursday afternoon and Friday mid-morning practicas From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Sun Apr 30 15:53:51 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UJrpNl002404 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:53:51 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f2.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.12]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UJrnW0020314 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:53:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:53:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:53:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2006 19:53:48.0765 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC23A8D0:01C66C8F] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Always close embrace I X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:53:51 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 Derik says: "The problem I have with the "close embrace all the time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to spread that ignorance around, by promoting their own inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all the time people" would just dance the way they want to and leave other people alone (not try to teach their ignorance), then I would have no problem with them at all." I think we should analyze the reasons a particular individual chooses to dance in a particular way. 1 - The style of the local available instructor. Here we should acknowledge the existence of several periods: An initial period (early nineties): Most instructors traveling abroad taught open embrace salon style (called tango fantasia by some people, nowadays). This style could be very demanding in the way of physical conditioning, dancing skills and availability of space to dance, (it trains for stage dancing although it can be done as a social form) but it can be simplified to some extent to adjust to different circumstances. The students at this period (ignorant of the existence of different tango styles assumed that that was the only Argentine Tango). A few years later ( mid nineties): People started to travel to Argentina to improve their dancing and discovered that most people at the milongas danced in close embrace. A different form of the one they had been taught. This form was more compact, kept the close embrace all the time except for minor adjustments and the best of all: it was excellent for dancing in crowded milongas and at the same time it was not as demanding of physical conditioning, skills and rigorous training as the other form. It was ideal for social dancing done by people of all ages and physical aptitude. These people returned home believing that they had been cheated and proclaimed that the "real tango was done in close embrace". At the same time instructors of this style started to travel abroad saying " if you wish to dance in buenos Aires, you should learn this style, because most people there dance this form. They were not lying, this was the truth. They said "most" people dance only in close embrace. They neglected to mention that many others danced 'Salon open embrace' , that many danced both ways open and close embrace, and that a few were starting to dance "Nuevo tango" and "Canyengue". During this period many people started instruction in 'milonguero, close embrace'. That was all they knew, they were convinced this was the only tango that existed. Many other dancers frustrated with their impossibility to master the 'Tango Fantasia' joined in. They had plenty of room to dance but they chose to make the room smaller to reproduce the situation in Buenos Aires. When dancing with beginners of "open embrace" started to complain about them: "they show off", "they dance externally (for the audience) rather than internally the way we do it", "they are rude, as they provoke frequent collisions", etc. The dancers of only 'Open embrace rarely complained about the others but interiorly many of them thought that close embrace seemed to be an "inferior" form of dancing tango. During this period Nuevo Tango was introduced by traveling instructors of this style. Here again we have a style that is very demanding in the way of physical aptitude, skills and training. Due to all those factors this style atracted mostly young dancers. Will continue, Best regards, Sergio. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 16:15:50 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UKFolx005828 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:15:50 -0400 Received: from web54711.mail.yahoo.com (web54711.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.201]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UKFi7H021126 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:15:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23313 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 20:15:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=JpzUDQV9Sk0vQ5Cnk1rJX3UN5+Tsz3LdquZJHq6vBuPp/D1H8uRW0NP8XZC+NMzsMya1Npmh7CbwnO5Qhn8uz9mvXfpHw7xsvdxzJR1ULlspIXXPaJRgOilq7/tUpssc8zj3GhlINdvt31WX4yrhmRCjYj9a4uuVvGHjdN7g9D8= ; Message-ID: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.4.127] by web54711.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:15:43 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:15:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Michael , d.rawson@rawsonweb.com, "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , Tango-L In-Reply-To: <004101c66c7a$617d7660$44203e43@michaeldesktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: Michael Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:15:50 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 Dear Michael: Why does it not surprise me that you have never heard of the expression. "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon."" This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking about. Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I have never experienced "close embrace all the time". I have! Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know when she wants some space to express herself. Of course to do this, she would have to know how to dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close embrace all the time" followers, who have not really learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. Doing one thing all the time is way too much. Variety is the spice of life. PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all the time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music the DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and cutsie stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, then the music then changes again and becomes more lively. I guess I just get tired of all the predictability, the cutsie same old repetitious choreography. and the "gee, look how cute we are" mentality....and the constant recruitment of inexperienced teachers and students to teach this boring stuff. I like to see more real energy on the dance floor. where people really know how to navigate the floor in complex patterns, follow the changes in the music, and "move" instead of just going through the motions. My opinion. Other than that, have a beautiful day in Washington. Weather here is beautiful too, and I am going to enjoy it as well. Happy Spring. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Michael wrote: > Derek: > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance open > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > don't want to break the circuit with my partner. > > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > because their stiff arms prevents them from getting > close. > > Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in > Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead of > reading Derek's posts. > > Michael Ditkoff > Washington, DC > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance with > N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These > women dance closer embrace. > Derek unfortunately wrote: > I do front ochos all the in variations of close > and open embrace. As you have heard it said many > times, "The embrace > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > to vary the embrace. You should know how to be > connected > with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the > embrace closed all the time is like > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > the side of the people who do close embrace all the > time, > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give > me a > break....lol. > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 16:26:16 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UKQGAe008087 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:26:16 -0400 Received: from web54713.mail.yahoo.com (web54713.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.203]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UKQAwT003444 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 3739 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 20:26:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GePfjz34qQczq5tCfffk4JlisCgKyZ+asph/epSd9RDQiYXQq2s3xmeXbCdmMv0olyEBA+mw4zDYVzOIIKavj2fbLOG7FemyB49xUazXZPL0VdIZU+JtSoDfeMyvhkfwVP25tQDjELzS0dWjMP6Qexx09Aq9p4x/dPUJfW0O4/U= ; Message-ID: <20060430202610.3737.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.88.4.127] by web54713.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:26:10 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:26:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Always close embrace I X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:26:16 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 Dear Sergio: Thank you for the summary. I agree with you completely. Excellent! Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Sergio Vandekier wrote: > Derik says: > > "The problem I have with the "close embrace all the > time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to > spread that ignorance around, by promoting their own > inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all > the > time people" would just dance the way they want to > and > leave other people alone (not try to teach their > ignorance), then I would have no problem with them > at > all." > > I think we should analyze the reasons a particular > individual chooses to > dance in a particular way. > > 1 - The style of the local available instructor. > Here we should > acknowledge the existence of several periods: > > An initial period (early nineties): > > Most instructors traveling abroad taught open > embrace salon style (called > tango fantasia by some people, nowadays). > > This style could be very demanding in the way of > physical conditioning, > dancing skills and availability of space to dance, > (it trains for stage > dancing although it can be done as a social form) > but it can be simplified > to some extent to adjust to different circumstances. > > The students at this period (ignorant of the > existence of different tango > styles assumed that that was the only Argentine > Tango). > > A few years later ( mid nineties): > > People started to travel to Argentina to improve > their dancing and > discovered that most people at the milongas danced > in close embrace. A > different form of the one they had been taught. > > This form was more compact, kept the close embrace > all the time except for > minor adjustments and the best of all: it was > excellent for dancing in > crowded milongas and at the same time it was not as > demanding of physical > conditioning, skills and rigorous training as the > other form. It was ideal > for social dancing done by people of all ages and > physical aptitude. > > These people returned home believing that they had > been cheated and > proclaimed that the "real tango was done in close > embrace". At the same > time instructors of this style started to travel > abroad saying " if you wish > to dance in buenos Aires, you should learn this > style, because most people > there dance this form. They were not lying, this was > the truth. > > They said "most" people dance only in close embrace. > They neglected to > mention that many others danced 'Salon open embrace' > , that many danced both > ways open and close embrace, and that a few were > starting to dance "Nuevo > tango" and "Canyengue". > > During this period many people started instruction > in 'milonguero, close > embrace'. > That was all they knew, they were convinced this was > the only tango that > existed. Many other dancers frustrated with their > impossibility to master > the 'Tango Fantasia' joined in. They had plenty of > room to dance but they > chose to make the room smaller to reproduce the > situation in Buenos Aires. > > When dancing with beginners of "open embrace" > started to complain about > them: "they show off", > "they dance externally (for the audience) rather > than internally the way we > do it", "they are rude, as they provoke frequent > collisions", etc. The > dancers of only 'Open embrace rarely complained > about the others but > interiorly many of them thought that close embrace > seemed to be an > "inferior" form of dancing tango. > > During this period Nuevo Tango was introduced by > traveling instructors of > this style. > > Here again we have a style that is very demanding > in the way of physical > aptitude, skills and training. > Due to all those factors this style atracted mostly > young dancers. > > Will continue, Best regards, Sergio. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN > Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Sun Apr 30 16:38:54 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UKcsxV010638 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:38:54 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f29.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.39]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UKckMX021965 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:38:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu, patangos@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:38:45 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2006 20:38:46.0507 (UTC) FILETIME=[141E6BB0:01C66C96] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Always close embrace II X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:38:54 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Now we have people that only know how to dance in one or the other style (open or close embrace). Discussions started in reference to every aspect of the dance as the different styles have certain elements that differentiate them. (technique, goal, etc). I started then the discussion of different styles in A. Tango. I was attacked from every corner as every one had reasons to believe that I favored one style over the others. Many tango instructors felt threatened feeling that my talking about certain possible choices at the time of taking lessons was going to cause them to lose students. Now we have a period when we understand that there are several forms or styles in which one can dance tango. The discussion however persists. Somebody just said that Derik is playing Devil's advocate stimulating a discussion while as he would say "lol". I do not think this to be the case I think that he genuinely thinks that he was cheated by the instructors of 'close embrace tango' the same as the earlier dancers believed that the instructors of 'open style' had cheated them. But you know what ?, nobody was cheated . There are many styles to dance and every instructor teaches the one he knows. Among the reasons for preferring a style over another we could consider (now that we know we have a choice): a) Age and physical skills: Everyone should dance according to his age. An older person should not pretend to dance like a young one would do. There are people that dance very fast, doing all sort of skillful moves in a few seconds and there are others that dance very slowly. b) Your goal as a dancer: Do you want to be a social dancer or you have the goal of becoming a professional, stage tango dancer. Do you want to become a tango teacher? While it is possible to do any style socially it is obvious that close embrace (including canyengue) adapts the best to crowded milongas. The other styles open embrace salon and nuevo require lots of room to dance more or less comfortably. We certainly do not have to dance close embrace because it is done in the crowded milongas of B.A. when we have lots of room available. We let other factors determine our preference. c) It is possible that you tried Open Embrace or Nuevo but finally you decided that your final preference is Close Embrace. Many people I know belong to this group. They started dancing Open style, some are able to do it with excellency but prefer to do close embrace. There are many others that found open embrace frustrating and very demanding and ended up finding that close embrace corresponds more with their age, physical aptitude and spiritual needs. Summary: Whatever your preference as to style is, tango offers you a wealth and a life full of enjoyment and discovery. As to Derik, I do not know dear Derik, if you failed to notice, but most people recently accepted the fact as stated in my summary, they ceased to argue about which style is superior, you are the only one left. You may have a valid point: it is best to know many styles so that you can adapt to every situation. That is *your* preference, and I think that it is fine but... you should accept the fact that most people are perfectly satisfied and happy dancing only one style. A style that perfectly fulfils all their needs. Best regards, Sergio _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From tango-l@hzoli.com Sun Apr 30 17:16:52 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3ULGqQ3014907 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:16:52 -0400 Received: from smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.202]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3ULGn8l002306 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 17:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 14517 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2006 21:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hzoli.home) (hzoli@sbcglobal.net@71.145.170.6 with plain) by smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Apr 2006 21:16:49 -0000 Received: from hzoli by hzoli.home with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FaJHc-00064Q-00; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:16:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:16:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL100 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: From: Zoltan Hidvegi X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:16:52 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 72 Derik Rawson wrote: > PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all the > time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music the > DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and cutsie > stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, > then the music then changes again and becomes more > lively. Derik, you've made me curious. Could you please give us some examples of the boring close-embrace music you do not like vs. the lively music you prefer? Give us titles and orchestras, or mp3 samples if you prefer. -Zoltan From dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Sun Apr 30 18:35:37 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UMZbLY025207 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:35:37 -0400 Received: from web86609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web86609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.13.31]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UMZXgW005194 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 36750 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 22:35:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20060430223533.36748.qmail@web86609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.156.243.104] by web86609.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:35:33 BST X-RocketYMMF: daniel.iannarelli@btinternet.com Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:35:33 +0100 (BST) From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.209 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:35:37 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 73 Derik, I don't know how to tell you this except straight, and don't take it the wrong way but... You're mad... Mad!...MAd!!... MAD!!! ... MAAAD, I tell you! Dani Derik Rawson wrote: Dear Michael: Why does it not surprise me that you have never heard of the expression. "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon."" This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking about. Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I have never experienced "close embrace all the time". I have! Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know when she wants some space to express herself. Of course to do this, she would have to know how to dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close embrace all the time" followers, who have not really learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. Doing one thing all the time is way too much. Variety is the spice of life. PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all the time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music the DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and cutsie stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, then the music then changes again and becomes more lively. I guess I just get tired of all the predictability, the cutsie same old repetitious choreography. and the "gee, look how cute we are" mentality....and the constant recruitment of inexperienced teachers and students to teach this boring stuff. I like to see more real energy on the dance floor. where people really know how to navigate the floor in complex patterns, follow the changes in the music, and "move" instead of just going through the motions. My opinion. Other than that, have a beautiful day in Washington. Weather here is beautiful too, and I am going to enjoy it as well. Happy Spring. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Michael wrote: > Derek: > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance open > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > don't want to break the circuit with my partner. > > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > because their stiff arms prevents them from getting > close. > > Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in > Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead of > reading Derek's posts. > > Michael Ditkoff > Washington, DC > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance with > N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These > women dance closer embrace. > Derek unfortunately wrote: > I do front ochos all the in variations of close > and open embrace. As you have heard it said many > times, "The embrace > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > to vary the embrace. You should know how to be > connected > with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the > embrace closed all the time is like > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > the side of the people who do close embrace all the > time, > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give > me a > break....lol. > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From yaletangoclub@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 19:12:04 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UNC4GA031070 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:12:04 -0400 Received: from web51610.mail.yahoo.com (web51610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.215]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k3UNC1b1000925 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 30394 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Apr 2006 23:12:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EhoL+HrKMqL4AWgsumrGEMZ9qUZGjDutq4GabzjmLdBC4cuBVJ1LntUevihp89u+BK/2ma5ie/MF9rimOdYleHQNBXzQ/4c2G1yTHjuuOuKwY06Z5yjtOmduJ611AfAGgEpJkeWOjCsJXNJSM0tp1luXePWLY/z1gn9rt3XEVfw= ; Message-ID: <20060430231201.30388.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.132.184.136] by web51610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:12:01 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:12:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Yale Tango Club To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.4 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:12:04 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 74 I am truly amazed that 1200 peple on this list let this idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, dull, predictable, inexperienced, same old, boring, BS. This is just the words from this email. You let him do this not just once, but over and over again. For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling! That's another idiot from Texas that you let walk all over you. At least the other one, you elected him, and you know he's not going to be there forever. Don't any of you have any b*lls on you? (well a few of you do) What's the matter with you? You must all be confusing freedom of speech with the right to be insulted. If people have nothing interesting to contribute, they should not have privileged access to 1200 inboxes. Is this Derik's list, or everybody's list. Tine Derik Rawson wrote: Dear Michael: Why does it not surprise me that you have never heard of the expression. "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon."" This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking about. Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I have never experienced "close embrace all the time". I have! Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know when she wants some space to express herself. Of course to do this, she would have to know how to dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close embrace all the time" followers, who have not really learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. Doing one thing all the time is way too much. Variety is the spice of life. PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all the time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music the DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and cutsie stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, then the music then changes again and becomes more lively. I guess I just get tired of all the predictability, the cutsie same old repetitious choreography. and the "gee, look how cute we are" mentality....and the constant recruitment of inexperienced teachers and students to teach this boring stuff. I like to see more real energy on the dance floor. where people really know how to navigate the floor in complex patterns, follow the changes in the music, and "move" instead of just going through the motions. My opinion. Other than that, have a beautiful day in Washington. Weather here is beautiful too, and I am going to enjoy it as well. Happy Spring. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Michael wrote: > Derek: > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance open > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > don't want to break the circuit with my partner. > > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > because their stiff arms prevents them from getting > close. > > Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in > Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead of > reading Derek's posts. > > Michael Ditkoff > Washington, DC > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance with > N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These > women dance closer embrace. > Derek unfortunately wrote: > I do front ochos all the in variations of close > and open embrace. As you have heard it said many > times, "The embrace > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > to vary the embrace. You should know how to be > connected > with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the > embrace closed all the time is like > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > the side of the people who do close embrace all the > time, > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give > me a > break....lol. > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ************************ www.yaletangoclub.org From tango.society@gmail.com Sun Apr 30 19:32:37 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3UNWblb001219 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:32:37 -0400 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.191]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k3UNWajj012442 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n15so773032nfc for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:32:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oAgBtbrwWEFw71aBkLir/TsSVDkAWqohVybVf9YmiU5nD/PS7rRhCxSOr/wtbVhclaWYbzK4hGYPBaxpMCP0LSScwgPYPhB40OuQrkPJY7m5pb/R/5M401wE95l1kTfTm3LfixQr6qt+J7hCPWGKlqHmqmQw8ni6zRL+ysGQ5ro= Received: by 10.48.14.7 with SMTP id 7mr778936nfn; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.247.19 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:32:35 -0500 From: "Ron Weigel" To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <20060430231201.30388.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> <20060430231201.30388.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k3UNWblb001219 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:32:37 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 75 On 4/30/06, Yale Tango Club wrote: > I am truly amazed that 1200 peple on this list let this idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, dull, predictable, inexperienced, same old, boring, BS. This is just the words from this email. You let him do this not just once, but over and over again. For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling! If people don't respond to outrageous inflammatory e-mail, maybe it's because the responses just fuel more of the same. The best thing to do is to ignore this kind of posting. We don't really want to reinforce it. If no one responds to it, he will just be talking to himself. He might start talking louder initially to get attention, but maybe eventually he'll just go away. We can always click on 'delete' when we see his name. Ron From aron@milonga.hu Sun Apr 30 20:06:36 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k4106M1g007128 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:06:36 -0400 Received: from graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu [195.228.240.79]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k4106JPI011399 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.mail.t-online.hu [127.0.0.1]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4AFD1E94C9 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 02:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.t-online.hu (karoly.axelero.hu [195.228.240.245]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195461EB3FF for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 02:06:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from NCC1701E (catv3EC955F0.pool.t-online.hu [62.201.85.240]) by mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 02:06:14 +0200 (CEST) From: "Aron ECSEDY" To: "Tango-L" Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 02:05:51 +0200 Message-ID: <003f01c66cb3$02454e00$6501a8c0@NCC1701E> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20060430231201.30388.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcZsqeohyaZYw0TWQnSmA/V+uY9pMQAAuUfw X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Sandbox X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 00:06:36 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 76 If I want to show everyone the person I criticize is wrong I definitely won't start it by acting in the same manner. > inboxes. Is this Derik's list, or everybody's list. I think it is no-one's list. This is a list about and for tango. Most of the people here are supposed to be over 20 - most of us quite a bit - show a bit of self-respect and don't act like an adolescent. Aron From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Sun Apr 30 22:08:51 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k4128pml026426 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:08:51 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f21.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.31]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k4128mhv003163 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:08:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:46 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:46 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2006 02:08:48.0540 (UTC) FILETIME=[2F0CDDC0:01C66CC4] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Always close embrace III X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 02:08:51 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 77 At this point one may ask where can I dance open embrace or Nuevo Tango. As you know many of us either in Argentina or abroad were taught 'Open embrace' tango to discover that when we went to the milongas we could not dance. We were taught lots of non progressive figures and when we went dancing we discovered that the dance was progressive, it was necessary to continuously walk around the room, counter clock wise without disturbing anyone around us and do a figure when space and circumstance allowed it. At this point in the travel of tango discovery we started to learn and practice 'close embrace'. Once we mastered this technique and form of dancing we were finally able to dance in the milongas of B.A. :)) Some of us also continued exploring and discovering the possibilities of 'Open Style' tango. Some of us discovered Nuevo Tango and felt it was exciting to learn a new way of doing things. We particularly liked the sorpresive element of many of its moves. But it was obvious that if we arrived at a crowded milonga we could only dance close embrace. So we had to arrive early or stay late to be able to dance open, when more space was available. The mood (as Derik describes) changes after most people leave by 4 am and there is more space to dance. The music changes, it could be more Pugliese, more Piazzola, More Raul Garello, more alternative music, synthetized music, etc. The dancers open the embrace and they start flying around the room in a magical way, like in a ballet throwing ganchos, amagues, heel sacadas, linear boleos, etc, without bothering each other. As I said it can look like a choreographed ballet. This last group will continue to take lessons in open and/or nuevo, go to practicas and organize their own milongas. Many milongas could occur at Sunderland in Villa Urquiza when there is room to dance, or "La Marshall" (gay milonga) on wednesdays. Or certain areas of certain milongas such as 'La viruta" upstairs. Outside B.A. most people dance Salon open or close embrace, again depending on the space available. I dance a lot in Mar del Plata where most people like to dance salon open or close. At "La Rada" they dance Nuevo Tango. Mar del Plata has a large group of Nuevo Tango dancers. But where you can dance open embrace or nuevo tango is in the USA. There is plenty of space here to dance in any way you wish. Milongas are not as crowded as in B.A. (of course there are exceptions ). So if you prefer open embrace or Nuevo Tango by all means continue to dance that way. after all you dance 50 weeks a year in the USA and only two weeks in B.A. I find absurd that people would dance close embrace because that is the way people in B.A. are forced to do. Dance close embrace only if this is your preference. Summary: Most people dance salon close embrace. You have to look for the place and the oportunity to do the other styles. Dance anyway you like. The learning sequencial process for many of us was: Salon open embrace, salon close embrace, milonguero close embrace, Nuevo tango, Canyengue. For others has been: Salon close embrace (they remained there). Salon milonguero (they remained there). Salon open, close, Nuevo. (they remained there). Salon close, Canyengue. They are still learning this last form. Some are starting to amalgamate taking elements from different styles. We all continue to learn. I hope that this helps to clarify this matter. Remember that this is my opinion according to my own experience but other people may have different ideas and they are welcome. Best regards, Sergio. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 22:16:39 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k412GdKc027512 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:16:39 -0400 Received: from web54710.mail.yahoo.com (web54710.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.200]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k412Gcgg012781 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 55659 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 02:16:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ha2KdF8HbDwBmHOkNJTnEjh3AaejTGW75+ah27S7hhjy0xOJHlBpq3G9qqXhTJhPeLh8VKKkca9VHIfag/3Arg3eRsDywut1N7k2uZB82/eVFEUtpgq0KpBG4y7P8mE7SixbqA/Bqi/ixqtgt9IHw6wyzzyFt9UkTwCcJmxfKks= ; Message-ID: <20060501021638.55657.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:16:38 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:16:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060430231201.30388.qmail@web51610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 02:16:39 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 Dear Tine: So now you too have appointed yourself the spokesperson and Representative for all 1200 people on this list. Your buddy, Michael Figart did that already, twice..lol. When are you "close embrace all the time" people going to leave everybody alone and just let them dance the way they want to without trying to teach them your stuff and turn them into tango robots. I am so tired of all this "parental control" and ignorance. You guys need to learn instead of teach. My opinion. Derik d.rawson@rawsonwb.com --- Yale Tango Club wrote: > I am truly amazed that 1200 peple on this list let > this idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, > dull, predictable, inexperienced, same old, boring, > BS. This is just the words from this email. You let > him do this not just once, but over and over again. > For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling! > > That's another idiot from Texas that you let walk > all over you. At least the other one, you elected > him, and you know he's not going to be there > forever. > > Don't any of you have any b*lls on you? (well a > few of you do) What's the matter with you? > > You must all be confusing freedom of speech with > the right to be insulted. If people have nothing > interesting to contribute, they should not have > privileged access to 1200 inboxes. Is this Derik's > list, or everybody's list. > > Tine > > > > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Michael: > > Why does it not surprise me that you have never > heard > of the expression. > > "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon."" > > This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking > about. > Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 > percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I > have never experienced "close embrace all the time". > > I have! > > Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know > when she wants some space to express herself. Of > course to do this, she would have to know how to > dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close > embrace all the time" followers, who have not really > learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no > ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. > > Doing one thing all the time is way too much. > Variety > is the spice of life. > > PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all > the > time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music > the > DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and > cutsie > stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, > then the music then changes again and becomes more > lively. > > I guess I just get tired of all the predictability, > the cutsie same old repetitious choreography. and > the > "gee, look how cute we are" mentality....and the > constant recruitment of inexperienced teachers and > students to teach this boring stuff. > > I like to see more real energy on the dance floor. > where people really know how to navigate the floor > in > complex patterns, follow the changes in the music, > and > "move" instead of just going through the motions. My > opinion. > > Other than that, have a beautiful day in Washington. > > Weather here is beautiful too, and I am going to > enjoy > it as well. Happy Spring. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Michael wrote: > > > Derek: > > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is > only > > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance > open > > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > > don't want to break the circuit with my partner. > > > > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes > like > > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to > slightly > > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room > for > > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > > because their stiff arms prevents them from > getting > > close. > > > > Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in > > Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead > of > > reading Derek's posts. > > > > Michael Ditkoff > > Washington, DC > > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > > > Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance > with > > N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These > > women dance closer embrace. > > Derek unfortunately wrote: > > I do front ochos all the in variations of close > > and open embrace. As you have heard it said many > > times, "The embrace > > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > > to vary the embrace. You should know how to be > > connected > > with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the > > embrace closed all the time is like > > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > > time...ridiculous! My view is that the > inexperience > > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > > the side of the people who do close embrace all > the > > time, > > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > > teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. > Give > > me a > > break....lol. > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > Derik Rawson > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > http://www.rawsonweb.com > 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell > Phone > 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax > d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu > d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu > rawsonweb@yahoo.com > Europe/Asia > rawsonweb@compuserve.com > Paris, France > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Sun Apr 30 22:43:34 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k412hYaY030954 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:43:34 -0400 Received: from web54708.mail.yahoo.com (web54708.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.198]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k412hVa8013582 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 22:43:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 35207 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 02:43:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ouYfSQalVXYSXnwlX9XnvvOFcbw2Jo0P22BRPNa1OKs0OL3Ls9tOX1CQ24WnOT0cqd6Cn52G8vYtBBLRpHlRNS4+AeNYJCoZHoVFLcGpEdVzUqIQFWMl2+2UmLA+ZrcLz3WRK6KeVTJ5kxLBn4PhboLaJnCxZDpFLDqRNUhIUqw= ; Message-ID: <20060501024331.35205.qmail@web54708.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:43:31 PDT Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 19:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Always close embrace III and the change in the music afterwards X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 02:43:34 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Dear Sergio: I agree with everything you have said below, and I think you have also perhaps answered Zoltan's question below as well, about the change in music later in the evening. Thank you for your insight and perspective. --- Sergio Vandekier wrote: "The mood (as Derik describes) changes after most people leave by 4 am and there is more space to dance. The music changes, it could be more Pugliese, more Piazzola, More Raul Garello, more alternative music, synthetized music, etc." Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com Derik Rawson wrote: PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all the time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music the DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and cutsie stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, then the music then changes again and becomes more lively. Derik, you've made me curious. Could you please give us some examples of the boring close-embrace music you do not like vs. the lively music you prefer? Give us titles and orchestras, or mp3 samples if you prefer. -Zoltan --- Sergio Vandekier wrote: > At this point one may ask where can I dance open > embrace or Nuevo Tango. > > As you know many of us either in Argentina or abroad > were taught 'Open > embrace' tango to discover that when we went to the > milongas we could not > dance. > > We were taught lots of non progressive figures and > when we went dancing we > discovered that the dance was progressive, it was > necessary to continuously > walk around the room, counter clock wise without > disturbing anyone around us > and do a figure when space and circumstance allowed > it. > > At this point in the travel of tango discovery we > started to learn and > practice 'close embrace'. Once we mastered this > technique and form of > dancing we were finally able to dance in the > milongas of B.A. :)) > > Some of us also continued exploring and discovering > the possibilities of > 'Open Style' tango. > > Some of us discovered Nuevo Tango and felt it was > exciting to learn a new > way of doing things. > We particularly liked the sorpresive element of many > of its moves. > > But it was obvious that if we arrived at a crowded > milonga we could only > dance close embrace. > > So we had to arrive early or stay late to be able to > dance open, when more > space was available. > > The mood (as Derik describes) changes after most > people leave by 4 am and > there is more space to dance. The music changes, it > could be more Pugliese, > more Piazzola, More Raul Garello, more alternative > music, synthetized music, > etc. The dancers open the embrace and they start > flying around the room in > a magical way, like in a ballet throwing ganchos, > amagues, heel sacadas, > linear boleos, etc, without bothering each other. As > I said it can look like > a choreographed ballet. > > This last group will continue to take lessons in > open and/or nuevo, go to > practicas and organize their own milongas. > > Many milongas could occur at Sunderland in Villa > Urquiza when there is room > to dance, or "La Marshall" (gay milonga) on > wednesdays. Or certain areas of > certain milongas such as 'La viruta" upstairs. > > Outside B.A. most people dance Salon open or close > embrace, again depending > on the space available. I dance a lot in Mar del > Plata where most people > like to dance salon open or close. > > At "La Rada" they dance Nuevo Tango. Mar del Plata > has a large group of > Nuevo Tango dancers. > > But where you can dance open embrace or nuevo tango > is in the USA. There is > plenty of space here > to dance in any way you wish. Milongas are not as > crowded as in B.A. (of > course there are exceptions ). So if you prefer > open embrace or Nuevo Tango > by all means continue to dance that way. after all > you dance 50 weeks a year > in the USA and only two weeks in B.A. > I find absurd that people would dance close embrace > because that is the way > people in B.A. are forced to do. Dance close > embrace only if this is your > preference. > > Summary: Most people dance salon close embrace. You > have to look for the > place and the oportunity to do the other styles. > Dance anyway you like. > > The learning sequencial process for many of us was: > Salon open embrace, > salon close embrace, milonguero close embrace, Nuevo > tango, Canyengue. > > For others has been: Salon close embrace (they > remained there). > > Salon milonguero (they > remained there). > > Salon open, close, > Nuevo. (they remained > there). > > Salon close, Canyengue. > They are still learning > this last form. > > Some are starting to amalgamate taking elements from > different styles. > > We all continue to learn. > > I hope that this helps to clarify this matter. > Remember that this is my > opinion according to my own experience but other > people may have different > ideas and they are welcome. > > Best regards, Sergio. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Sun Apr 30 23:08:48 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k4138msI001720 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:08:48 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail02.cavtel.net [64.83.1.222]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k4138jmh012859 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from michaeldesktop (unverified [67.62.32.68]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail02) with ESMTP id 11047179 for multiple; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:08:41 -0400 Message-ID: <007601c66ccc$9393e830$44203e43@michaeldesktop> From: "Michael" To: , "Tango-L" References: <20060430201543.23311.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:08:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 416, in=429, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 67.62.32.68 X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: Michael Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 03:08:48 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 Derik: I surmise that YOUR teacher(s) did you a disservice. You mistakenly = think an embrace has to be broken for a woman to express herself. Not = only do you show a poor understanding of leading, you also show NO = understanding of following!! Name some figures that can't be done in close embrace. Give me some = facts instead of your opinions masquerading as facts. Just because YOU = don't know how to lead figures in close embrace doesn't mean they can't = be done in close embrace. You're NOT the gold standard of close embrace. The women I dance with are quite capable of expressing themselves in = close embrace. If a woman wants space, it might not be because she wants to express = herself. Maybe she just wants to GET AWAY FROM YOU!! Since you are mathematically challenged, 60 to 80 percent is not all the = time. Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC Suffering from allergies and Derik Wish there was a pill for Derik. Sudafed won't work. I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Derik Rawson=20 To: Michael ; d.rawson@rawsonweb.com ; Trini y Sean (PATangoS) ; = Tango-L=20 Cc: Michael=20 Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from = Derik,a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! Dear Michael: Why does it not surprise me that you have never heard of the expression. "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon."" This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking about. Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I have never experienced "close embrace all the time".=20 I have! Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know when she wants some space to express herself. Of course to do this, she would have to know how to dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close embrace all the time" followers, who have not really learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. Doing one thing all the time is way too much. Variety is the spice of life. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Michael wrote: > Derek: > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is only > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance open > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > don't want to break the circuit with my partner.=20 >=20 > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > because their stiff arms prevents them from getting > close. >=20 Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango From barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM Sun Apr 30 23:59:24 2006 Received: from mitvma.mit.edu (MITVMA.MIT.EDU [18.92.0.3]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k413xOfG010753 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:59:24 -0400 Received: by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via spool with SMTP id 1300 ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:59:57 EDT Received: from MITVMA (NJE origin SMTP@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU (LMail V1.2d/1.8d) with BSMTP id 3431 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:59:57 -0400 Received: from xmail07.myhosting.com [168.144.250.250] by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 440) via TCP with ESMTP ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 23:59:57 EDT X-Comment: mitvma.mit.edu: Mail was sent by xmail07.myhosting.com Received: (qmail 27474 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 03:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.100]) (Authenticated-user:_barbara@tangobar-productions.com@[201.121.217.128]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail07.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 May 2006 03:59:24 -0000 Message-ID: <437AC873.7040206@tangobar-productions.com> From: Barbara Garvey User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Igor Polk References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: tango-l@mitvma.mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [TANGO-L] Desperate to learn, no teachers here. Please help - X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 03:59:24 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:49:39 -0600 X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 03:59:24 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 I have yet to find a video or DVD that could be really useful to beginning dancers; a good 2-hour video could address walking, lead/follow, the embrace (with variations), a salida, cadencias, forward and back ochos. None of the ones I've seen (and I've seen most of those easily available) try to emphasize technique which is what beginning tango is all about, or rather what all tango is about. Maybe there is a good beginners tape or DVD for close embrace but not that I've seen. Please note, we haven't seen Christy Cote's DVDs; hope to remedy that soon. Also, although there are several good Followers' tapes, especially that by Rebecca Shulman, the only one I know of for Leaders is superficial and does not discuss leading, for Pete's sake. Have I missed something? From jantango@feedback.net.ar Mon May 1 00:28:47 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k414SlW0014565 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 00:28:47 -0400 Received: from radio.feedback.net.ar ([200.51.104.3]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k414SdBO023565 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 00:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (host160.200.61.143.ifxnw.com.ar [200.61.143.160]) by radio.feedback.net.ar (Postfix) with SMTP id BBE0C38461; Mon, 1 May 2006 01:28:39 -0300 (ART) Message-ID: <002501c66cd8$9456f3a0$a08f3dc8@default> From: "Janis Kenyon" To: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 01:32:00 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Milongueros celebrate birthdays in May X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 04:28:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 Ernesto Hector Garcia -- May 8, 1936 -- 70 He's better known as El Flaco Dany and could be called the Fred Astaire of Buenos Aires. Dany is one of the handful of milongueros who teach. Carlos Gavito opened the door for Dany to teach in Europe. Dany is on the teaching roster for Tango Fantasy in Miami Beach later this month. Rodolfo Cesar Indegno -- May 8, 1931 -- 75 He's a small, quiet man who has never been married and has no children to his knowledge, as he likes to joke. He disappeared from the milongas for a while for health reasons. Rodolfo takes his time to embrace his partner, and his waltzes are wonderful. Lo de Celia is his favorite place to dance. Mario Alan Candamil de Santamaria -- May 13, 1929 -- 77 I'll never forget the first time I danced with Alito eight years ago in Regin. Born in Mexico, his family immigrated to Buenos Aires when he was three years old. Alito lives in the milongas, especially in El Beso where he has dinner every night. His favorite orchestra is Tanturi, and he loves American jazz. Guess where he'll be celebrating his birthday? Ricardo Ruben Calorota -- May 17, 1938 -- 68 Chiche's table in Gricel is where you'll find the milongueros, including his cousin Mario. He listens to tango on the radio while puttering in his home workshop. I attended his daughter's wedding which confirmed that Argentine weddings are marathon productions that end with breakfast the next day. Jose Guillermo Salurso -- May 17, 1934 -- 72 I met El Tano ten years ago in Milwaukee, Wisconsin while he was still living there with his children and grandchildren. He immigrated in the 1960s with his bride Emma, but El Tano's heart is in Buenos Aires. His life is in the milongas, especially in Nino Bien where he is padrino. Ernesto Ramon Delgado -- May 30, 1935 -- 71 I call him "Tio" and know his entire family. Ernesto is the youngest of 14 children. He sings tango and doesn't dance much these days, but his older brother Hector (75) dances regularly. Ernesto once told me that he was married to the mother of his children for many years, but he will always be married to the milonga. He gave me the title for my book. From ceverett@ceverett.com Mon May 1 03:30:58 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k417Uw1g008474 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 03:30:58 -0400 Received: from cobalt.physemp.com (cobalt.physemp.com [207.177.51.226]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k417UtMo027719 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 03:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.0.50] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by cobalt.physemp.com with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1FaSrv-0005ew-00 for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 02:30:55 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69239168 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 02:33:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4455B9C4.6040308@ceverett.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 02:33:24 -0500 From: "Christopher L. Everett" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: tango-l@mit.edu References: <380-22006403016422312@M2W126.mail2web.com> In-Reply-To: <380-22006403016422312@M2W126.mail2web.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.758 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 07:30:58 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 tl2@chrisjj.com wrote: >Christopher L. Everett wrote: > > >>It is possible for a follower to be essentially useless as a dance >>partner. ... The worst is when they think they know what they are >>doing. The universal constant with them is that they ... never >>took beginner classes. >> > >In my experience, the universal constant amongst useless partners is that >they /did/ take beginner classes. > Heh, I'm used to beginner classes that do something useful for beginners. The syndrome I was actually addressing is the situation of people who've taken a few workshops in salon style, but not much more than that, attempting to pass on "what they know" to other people. "What they know" turns out to be the tiny collection of steps they still remember, divorced from good posture, musicality or connection. Stepping on the beat gets left behind in the rush to teach all the steps they know. And yes, the dreaded "machine-gun" ocho occurs in this context too. Happened to me today. It could have been worse, my first experience with auto-ochos was with someone with a lot of ballroom tango experience: scary. Christopher From dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Mon May 1 05:40:52 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k419eqsG023517 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 05:40:52 -0400 Received: from web86608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web86608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.13.30]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k419egUg014423 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 05:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 33429 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 09:40:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20060501094041.33427.qmail@web86608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.157.49.18] by web86608.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 10:40:41 BST X-RocketYMMF: daniel.iannarelli@btinternet.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:40:41 +0100 (BST) From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com, YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <20060501021638.55657.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Inexperience tango teachers, stay away from Derik, a consumer who knows BS when he hears it! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 09:40:52 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 Hey, leave Tine alone!!! She's my kind of woman (and I don't even know what she looks like! :-)). She speaks the truth. It's YOU Derik who speaks with forked tongue. She can represent my thoughts anytime. The same goes for Figgy... he's also ok in my book. Cheers, Dani Derik Rawson wrote: Dear Tine: So now you too have appointed yourself the spokesperson and Representative for all 1200 people on this list. Your buddy, Michael Figart did that already, twice..lol. When are you "close embrace all the time" people going to leave everybody alone and just let them dance the way they want to without trying to teach them your stuff and turn them into tango robots. I am so tired of all this "parental control" and ignorance. You guys need to learn instead of teach. My opinion. Derik d.rawson@rawsonwb.com --- Yale Tango Club wrote: > I am truly amazed that 1200 peple on this list let > this idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, > dull, predictable, inexperienced, same old, boring, > BS. This is just the words from this email. You let > him do this not just once, but over and over again. > For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling! > > That's another idiot from Texas that you let walk > all over you. At least the other one, you elected > him, and you know he's not going to be there > forever. > > Don't any of you have any b*lls on you? (well a > few of you do) What's the matter with you? > > You must all be confusing freedom of speech with > the right to be insulted. If people have nothing > interesting to contribute, they should not have > privileged access to 1200 inboxes. Is this Derik's > list, or everybody's list. > > Tine > > > > > Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Michael: > > Why does it not surprise me that you have never > heard > of the expression. > > "I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like > a bandondeon."" > > This is the kind of ignorance that I am talking > about. > Furthermore, I do dance close embrace 60 to 80 > percent of the time, so please do not tell me that I > have never experienced "close embrace all the time". > > I have! > > Like you, I feel her heart pounding, but I also know > when she wants some space to express herself. Of > course to do this, she would have to know how to > dance...lol. This is the big problem with "close > embrace all the time" followers, who have not really > learned the entire dance. They are stuck with no > ideas for open, so they have to avoid it. > > Doing one thing all the time is way too much. > Variety > is the spice of life. > > PS- I can always tell when the "close embrace all > the > time people" arrive in a room to dance. The music > the > DJ plays suddenly becomes very predictable and > cutsie > stuff... rather dull. When "the parents" go home, > then the music then changes again and becomes more > lively. > > I guess I just get tired of all the predictability, > the cutsie same old repetitious choreography. and > the > "gee, look how cute we are" mentality....and the > constant recruitment of inexperienced teachers and > students to teach this boring stuff. > > I like to see more real energy on the dance floor. > where people really know how to navigate the floor > in > complex patterns, follow the changes in the music, > and > "move" instead of just going through the motions. My > opinion. > > Other than that, have a beautiful day in Washington. > > Weather here is beautiful too, and I am going to > enjoy > it as well. Happy Spring. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > --- Michael wrote: > > > Derek: > > I'd love to give you a break! Your arrogance is > only > > exceeded by your ignorance of close embrace. > > Changing the embrace? Why would I want to do that? > > The embrace is like two batteries in a flashlight. > > If they aren't in contact (facing the correct > > direction), the light doesn't come on. To dance > open > > would break the circuit between the batteries. I > > don't want to break the circuit with my partner. > > > > I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes > like > > a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes > > like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can > > also feel her heart pounding. I may have to > slightly > > adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room > for > > a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from > > close to open. If couples have to go to open for a > > figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not > > appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not > > both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close > > because their stiff arms prevents them from > getting > > close. > > > > Thank goodness it's a beautiful spring day in > > Washington and I'm going out to enjoy it instead > of > > reading Derek's posts. > > > > Michael Ditkoff > > Washington, DC > > I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango > > > > Looking forward to my next trip to NY to dance > with > > N. and O. I thought I knew close embrace. These > > women dance closer embrace. > > Derek unfortunately wrote: > > I do front ochos all the in variations of close > > and open embrace. As you have heard it said many > > times, "The embrace > > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is > > to vary the embrace. You should know how to be > > connected > > with your partner, no matter what. Keeping the > > embrace closed all the time is like > > keeping the bandondeon closed all the > > time...ridiculous! My view is that the > inexperience > > and lack of understanding probably falls more on > > the side of the people who do close embrace all > the > > time, > > and their teachers who purposely eliminate > > teaching the front ocho entirely....like Tine. > Give > > me a > > break....lol. > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > Derik Rawson > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > http://www.rawsonweb.com > 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell > Phone > 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax > d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu > d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu > rawsonweb@yahoo.com > Europe/Asia > rawsonweb@compuserve.com > Paris, France > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > ************************ > www.yaletangoclub.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From rwal102086@ameritech.net Mon May 1 06:10:51 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41AApYF020305 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:10:51 -0400 Received: from smtp106.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp106.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.99]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41AAkYt019108 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 91890 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 10:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.160?) (rwal102086@ameritech.net@68.75.16.116 with plain) by smtp106.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 May 2006 10:10:45 -0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) To: tango-l@mit.edu Message-Id: From: Robert Wallace Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 06:13:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Spam-Score: 1.405 X-Spam-Level: * (1.405) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] =?iso-8859-1?q?2=A2_worth_from_a_beginner?= X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 10:10:51 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 I have been taking A Tango lessons for about three months and monitoring the list for for the same time. What a valuable resource the list is for new dancers. However, this has been my experience since falling "head over heels" in love with this dance, no pun intended. I have been taking my lessons at a local college in the evenings about twice and sometimes three times a week. So far, I have been exposed to six different instructors of various experience levels. The difference between the instructors is tremendous and varies a great deal. Sometimes I just want to quit because I can't learn well from a couple the instructors. Their ability to communicate in English is terrible and they become impatient when the students don't pick up on the lesson quickly. Unfortunately, I can't do much about the quality of instruction nor the variety of "teachers". So here I am feeling very insecure in the dance, little if any repertoire to use, and left with the impression that the university would rather promote the lessons to only "young handsome leads". The lessons vary a great deal in quality from class to class and the price varies from $3.00 for the students to $15.00 for adults from one of the more respected instructors. Already, I have observed that there are instructors and students alike that I just don't want to dance with. The most important quality I look for in an instructor is how they communicate. Can they communicate well and read the feedback from an inexperienced student and understand the student's confusion when learning something new. Secondly, I look at how well they dance on the floor when they are not instructing. Lacking much experience, I am easily impressed but I have several tapes and CDs of some famous A Tango dancers and use them as a guide or model. So far, with the seven different instructors, I have been impressed with only one. He is great and makes me feel good about my progress. He gives a four hour seminar every few months and I will be taking another seminar from him in June. I live for that seminar and know that I will be able to "knit together" from his teaching and move to a new higher level. Overall, the progress I am making is very slow and am somewhat bewildered and confused. I don't have enough confidence to even attend a Milonga yet, but I go and watch. I know eventually I'll learn because I'm committed to learning and dedicated to dancing well. In the meantime, reading your posts is good but I am sometimes embarrassed for the way some "flame" the viewpoints of others. I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may pass along. The tango community is so small in Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get enough dancers together to go for coffee after the lessons. Many of you are so fortunate to be able to live near large centers of A Tango dance and to be able to learn from the "greats". I suppose someday I'll have to make the pilgrimage to BA just to see how they dance there. To comment on the open vs close embrace issue... my best instructor teaches open embrace 90% of the time but has instructed us in close embrace a few times. However, few if any of the followers want to do close embrace that it becomes a mute issue. Since I'm large and "portly" few followers are comfortable with me rubbing my belly against theirs. But I'm working on that and that's another story. I think close embrace is beautiful and hope to be able to add it to my routine. Flame away, Robert Wallace "If you would not be forgotten As soon as you are rotten, Either write things worth reading, Or do things worth writing." -Ben Franklin From dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com Mon May 1 06:24:35 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41AOZ7d030679 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:24:35 -0400 Received: from smtp-02.arnet.com.ar (smtp-02.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.22]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41AOXGe014781 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 20736 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 05:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (201.252.9.25) by smtp-02.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 1 May 2006 05:22:48 -0000 Message-ID: <4455E1C6.5080603@lavidacondeby.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 07:24:06 -0300 From: Deby Novitz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Basta Ya! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 10:24:35 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 Can we stop beating Derek up? I along with probably the people who email me off this list are sick of hearing about this topic. Dance whatever you want, where you want how you want with who you want, but for God's sake dance instead of pontificating that your style, his style, that style, no style, along with incompetent, competent, self appointed, anointed teachers. I have absolutely no problem with discussions of style, music, or interactions. But when a conversation turns emotional and personal, it is time to take it off the floor. You are never going to convince anyone that their personal experience regardless of what it is, is wrong. You do not have to agree with someone's experience, but you have to respect it whether you agree with it or no. A person's experience is never wrong - it is a personal choice, which we all have the right to make. From ako31@nyc.rr.com Mon May 1 07:02:33 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41B2XMA007029 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 07:02:33 -0400 Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.7]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41B0Gl6003275 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 07:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (cpe-66-108-136-30.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.136.30]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k41AtuMd001277 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <99f98194b0ff2a5b64359fbb23c80b37@nyc.rr.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: andrea Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 07:00:53 -0400 To: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.623) X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Score: -1.153 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] why i love nyc X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 11:02:33 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 michael ditkoff wrote: I've never heard "The embrace opens and closes like a bandondeon." WRONG!! My heart opens and closes like a bandeneon, not the embrace. Sometimes I can also feel her heart pounding. I may have to slightly adjust the embrace to allow the woman more room for a figure, but there's NO good reason to go from close to open. If couples have to go to open for a figure, it's probably a show tango figure, not appropriate to the social floor. Or one, if not both, partners are so stiff they can't dance close because their stiff arms prevents them from getting close. hey michael, why i live in and love nyc is that it is the greatest living social experiment in tolerance and acceptance on the planet. we make room for anyone and everything and anything. the same goes in the tango community here. nothing and no one is 'WRONG' and no one makes rules about tango. on a milonga floor any nite of the week there is the most open of embraces as of minds. there is also the closest of embraces, stiff dancers, and graceful ones. i do hope we can dance when u come here so please let me know when that is. i would be happy to share a dance that contains the closest of embrace and the time taken for openness (as all relationships require) that affords me the opportunity to move gracefully and play w/ my own wacky embellishments. we make room for people we disagree with and dont try to convert them or tell them they are not appropriate on the social dance floor. not to sound smug but, we are more social than that. a n d r e a From tango@milonga.us Mon May 1 08:07:12 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41C7CgM023752 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:07:12 -0400 Received: from smtp139.iad.emailsrvr.com (smtp139.iad.emailsrvr.com [207.97.245.139]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41C7BFF029345 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (ool-43542612.dyn.optonline.net [67.84.38.18]) (Authenticated sender: reuven@milonga.us) by relay3.r3.iad.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0910044C00E for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4455F9EE.9080905@milonga.us> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 08:07:10 -0400 From: tango@milonga.us User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tango-L Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: OK X-Spam-Score: -1.638 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Tango Argentino Toolbar for Firefox Browser users X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:07:12 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 As Firefox users know, the browser uses Extensions, which modify and fine tune the functionality of the browser. Someone just came up with an extension which installs a toolbar called "Tango Argentino Toolbar". Here is the link where you can download and install that extension: https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2238/ The toolbar gives you an easy access to various Tango links as well as their photos, videos, calendar etc. Give it a try - they claim they are going to improve and expend it. Reuven From dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Mon May 1 08:42:42 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41CggJU030436 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:42:42 -0400 Received: from web86606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web86606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.13.28]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41CgfRq026203 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 58361 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 12:42:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20060501124240.58359.qmail@web86606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [81.157.49.18] by web86606.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 13:42:40 BST X-RocketYMMF: daniel.iannarelli@btinternet.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:42:40 +0100 (BST) From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ To: Deby Novitz , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <4455E1C6.5080603@lavidacondeby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Basta Ya! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:42:42 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 Hi Deby, You, yourself - in your posting intended to defend Derik - have just beaten him up again...! Poor guy! >:-)))) In your criticism of his attackers, in reality, you've just criticised Derik himself! After-all, from what I've read, it is HE who pontificates his style, ability etc ...AND criticises those styles/tangueros he doesn't like...! >:-))))) Let's all give him another thrashing... once 'round again, eh? >:-))))))) Nothing personal, Derik. It's just that, occasionally, society calls for a nice 'whipping-boy'. You've come along at just the right time to fit the bill ...just perfectly. Well done, son! Cheers, Dani 'El Zorro de Tango' >:-) Deby Novitz wrote: Can we stop beating Derek up? I along with probably the people who email me off this list are sick of hearing about this topic. Dance whatever you want, where you want how you want with who you want, but for God's sake dance instead of pontificating that your style, his style, that style, no style, along with incompetent, competent, self appointed, anointed teachers. I have absolutely no problem with discussions of style, music, or interactions. But when a conversation turns emotional and personal, it is time to take it off the floor. You are never going to convince anyone that their personal experience regardless of what it is, is wrong. You do not have to agree with someone's experience, but you have to respect it whether you agree with it or no. A person's experience is never wrong - it is a personal choice, which we all have the right to make. _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From aron@milonga.hu Mon May 1 09:04:57 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41D4svb007746 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:04:57 -0400 Received: from graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu [195.228.240.79]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41D2BVs022307 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.mail.t-online.hu [127.0.0.1]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 734941EA8B2 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:02:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.t-online.hu (karoly.axelero.hu [195.228.240.245]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E651E9782 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:02:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from NCC1701E (catv3EC955F0.pool.t-online.hu [62.201.85.240]) by mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:02:07 +0200 (CEST) From: "Aron ECSEDY" To: "Tango-L" Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 15:02:06 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c66d1f$7356f410$6501a8c0@NCC1701E> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4455E1C6.5080603@lavidacondeby.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcZtGYKj/yOF+zpHQfCklgm3Psb9xwAAkOkw X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41D4svb007746 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Basta Ya! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 13:04:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 > music, or interactions. But when a conversation turns > emotional and personal, it is time to take it off the floor. I agree. This whole 'debate' is getting a bit childish. I dance close embrace and open embrace alike (dependent mostly on partner and music - both are important IMO). Not necessarily within one dance, but I do both. They are like two different dances to me (not in technique, but in feeling), but both are tango. Different aspects, different concept, however, I would not give up either. As for considering open embrace something "less than", well I think MY tango is MY dance and NO-ONE on this planet will tell me how to dance MY dance, thank you. If you don't like it, don't watch it or don't dance with me. If you read interviews with the great Argentine dancers of the past, they actually were thinking the same way - they never wanted to dance like all the others, they wanted to be special, the best. IMHO This equalizing, copy-oriented, overtraditional approach is the creation of the 90s. We copy, therefore we think we are a part of an old tradition. Why don't you continue the tradition rather than canning the old one? Eg. The biggest problem in international ballroom is canning. The most important argument on the side of argentine tango is the fact that it is innovative and not canned! So? Do we can tango or can we do tango? Aron Ecsedy Áron *********** Aron ECSEDY Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99 AIM: ecsedya ICQ: 46386265 Skype: ecsedyaron Yahoo Messenger: ecsedya MSN Messenger: aron_ecsedy@msn.com http://www.holgyvalasz.hu/ * * * * * http://www.milonga.hu/ Az iWiW-en megtalálhatsz - Find me at iWiW (http://www.iwiw.net/) From astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp Mon May 1 09:29:53 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41DTrLP014223 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:29:53 -0400 Received: from mvs2.plala.or.jp (c158130.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.158.130]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41DTgt4003971 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soteccomputer ([125.203.143.9]) by mvs2.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20060501132941.EJJU29461.mvs2.plala.or.jp@soteccomputer> for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 22:29:41 +0900 Message-ID: <006f01c66d21$1c657f80$a443fea9@soteccomputer> From: "astrid" To: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:14:00 +0900 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.501 X-Spam-Level: ** (2.501) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Fw: [TANGO-L] Desperate to learn, no teachers here. Please help - X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 13:29:53 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 Hi, Barbara, I tried to answer you in private, but my mail got rejected by your spam blocker. So I guess, the only thing I can do is send this to the list, and would you please unblock my address? Thanks. Original mail below. Sorry for having to ask about this in public. Astrid (you asked for videos for beginners) > (You probably know these alrady): I quite liked Florencia Taccetti's video > of women's technique (bridge to the tango). She kind of gives you an idea > what tango could be like if you were elegant and had a perfect sense of > rhythm. Though very helpful for beginners? Don't know... Anyway, I enjoyed > watching it when I was a beginner. I also liked Elina Roldan (also for > women). She even introduces her shoes on the video...; ) > But I think, basically, it is hard to learn tango from a video. Noone there > to correct your mistakes. > > Astrid > > From doyleed@gmail.com Mon May 1 09:55:27 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41DtR1o019182 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:55:27 -0400 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.236]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41DtJFV016056 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 09:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so2143687wra for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 06:55:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=aiYhBLozYJYaAccwKi5Ga8bvUwUiods8Za5Q1OTDh+aN9x/0WXZQ8e+3PGcfNupxNDR+m+gKA0/gLjHP+2I/1twgRYV3dsr6dZx7e26Bms0st/viAgpsOfNWH5b45o3OKTT2HmnXH8uXvCTCWu9DKWxGFtRdbqsdaQ94GH99/e0= Received: by 10.54.111.5 with SMTP id j5mr4406261wrc; Mon, 01 May 2006 06:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.66.4 with HTTP; Mon, 1 May 2006 06:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <183484970605010655ld233701vc906346a7f1785a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 08:55:26 -0500 From: "Ed Doyle" To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <4455B9C4.6040308@ceverett.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: <380-22006403016422312@M2W126.mail2web.com> <4455B9C4.6040308@ceverett.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41DtR1o019182 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 13:55:27 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 Hi, I enjoy the comments about the 'ocho machines' or 'machine gun ochos'. I have about a year of leading experience, and every once in a while, I get a follower who is an 'ocho' machine. On slow music, I like to lead just a single ocho and hold or pause, and then another and pause. The last time I danced with an 'ocho machine', I led one ocho, the music slowed to a dreamy pause, and the machine started up doing first ocho, then another, then another, faster and faster till she was almost panicking. I tried to stand as still as possible, not moving any part of my body and faster and faster she went till finally she abruptly stopped and angrily said, I don't know what you want me to do when you don't lead me to do anything. I tried to smile and calmly say, if I don't lead anything, then don't do anything at all - just pause with me and enjoy the music. She did and I think we both did much better after that. I have actually only seen a few ocho machines, most followers are wonderful, often covering for my inexperience or helping me get better, but every so often I do experience the run away ocho and I have never really known why they do it, whether it is something I somehow cause, or they were taught it. Related to auto ocho is the runaway molinette. Here, the followers do not go on automatic, but they speed up, seeming to me to have nothing to do with the music - but just traverse faster and faster again, almost in panic mode. This too only happens occasionally, but when it does, I am always wondering if I did something that caused it, and how can I get them back to the speed we were dancing. Well, I really have no points I am trying to make here, just sort of amused to see that perhaps other leaders occasionally experience some of what I as a beginner experience. As I said, most of the time, I do not experience the runaway molinette or auto ocho, but only accaisionally. Ed On 5/1/06, Christopher L. Everett wrote: > tl2@chrisjj.com wrote: > > >Christopher L. Everett wrote: > > > > > >>It is possible for a follower to be essentially useless as a dance > >>partner. ... The worst is when they think they know what they are > >>doing. The universal constant with them is that they ... never > >>took beginner classes. > >> > > > >In my experience, the universal constant amongst useless partners is that > >they /did/ take beginner classes. > > > Heh, > > I'm used to beginner classes that do something useful for > beginners. > > The syndrome I was actually addressing is the situation of > people who've taken a few workshops in salon style, but not > much more than that, attempting to pass on "what they know" > to other people. > > "What they know" turns out to be the tiny collection of steps > they still remember, divorced from good posture, musicality > or connection. Stepping on the beat gets left behind in the > rush to teach all the steps they know. > > And yes, the dreaded "machine-gun" ocho occurs in this context > too. Happened to me today. It could have been worse, my > first experience with auto-ochos was with someone with a lot > of ballroom tango experience: scary. > > Christopher > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > From meredithleeklein@gmail.com Mon May 1 10:25:20 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41EPIvf025223 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:25:20 -0400 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com (pproxy.gmail.com [64.233.166.181]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41EOYlJ000559 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 39so2890878pyu for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 07:25:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=XbJzjIfwRHzuoP98DqlaqJP7M187GkvyVy16U/cyHwFvEdJAkEAzQr8UbhPEKbFYSY9rx1LAG7ECjol8Xl85Txu63axk+zl8GStc7J37UTqHB/w5JrdGELCL9eAFdyjAp2Wb1wLXQN9IzNfSOoQPdT5EpgjmsxHL2i/0LJsS0+c= Received: by 10.35.98.6 with SMTP id a6mr2517587pym; Mon, 01 May 2006 07:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.102.18 with HTTP; Mon, 1 May 2006 07:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <34cd2b720605010725i20c77f8ar646329e825d9118f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:25:10 -0400 From: "Meredith Klein" To: Tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41EPIvf025223 Subject: [Tango-L] Andres & Geraldine for Quicktime X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 14:25:20 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 Hi everyone, Some people were having trouble viewing the .mp4 of Andres & Geraldine that I posted a couple days ago. The video is now available as an .mov that will play in Quicktime. The file size is large, however, so it may be best to download it and then watch it, instead of streaming it. http://andresamarilla.com/video.htm Thanks! Meredith From astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp Mon May 1 10:25:49 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41EPm96025275 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:25:49 -0400 Received: from mvs2.plala.or.jp (c158130.vh.plala.or.jp [210.150.158.130]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41ELhs4027592 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from soteccomputer ([125.203.143.9]) by mvs2.plala.or.jp with SMTP id <20060501142142.GKIM29461.mvs2.plala.or.jp@soteccomputer>; Mon, 1 May 2006 23:21:42 +0900 Message-ID: <00af01c66d28$5c5c2560$a443fea9@soteccomputer> From: "astrid" To: "Ed Doyle" , References: <380-22006403016422312@M2W126.mail2web.com><4455B9C4.6040308@ceverett.com> <183484970605010655ld233701vc906346a7f1785a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 23:05:53 +0900 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: -0.099 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] More mIlonga at milongas X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 14:25:49 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 I led one ocho, the > music slowed to a dreamy pause, and the machine started up doing first > ocho, then another, then another, faster and faster till she was > almost panicking. I tried to stand as still as possible, not moving any part of my body and faster and faster she went till finally she abruptly stopped and angrily said, I don't know what you want me to do when you don't lead me to do anything >Related to auto ocho is the runaway molinette... Ah, the joys of leading and following... I remember the time I was once asked in class, if I would please be a man today since there was such a dismal lack of them. I hardly had a clue how lead an ocho, but I tried, and was quite appalled when, after a first hint of a lead, my girl went into automatic pilot and performed one ocho after another without paying any attention to me. Nor did I know how to stop her. I finally told her to stand still so that we could go on... I think, the reason for this, as with a few other movements, is that women are told to practise ochos against the wall, when there are not enough men. Not just one ocho, but 20-30 of them in a row. So beginners may get the idea that ochos are just something of which you do at least two, if not 4 or 6 or more. Molinetes are also often practised with two women going round and round. Don't know about faster and faster though. Once we were told in class to pull the men around with the help of our back muscles, since the men had a hard time gaining enough momentum on their own. The third thing is the cross. Women are often told that after one-two, you have to cross, so they do, whether they are led or not, and some male beginners don't know how to lead the cross and simply expect the woman to do it on her own. Another thing is the boleo. Do you sometimes, like me, watch women performing uncalled for boleos on their own, with a tensed leg, and you can see clearly that they are doing it without being led because it looiks so out of harmony with the dance? I still remember Ezequiel, my first teacher, who would sometimes tell the women in class NOT to perform the figures on their own that he was just explaining to the men but wait until paired with the leaders. He may have even prefered the women not to watch or listen at all while he explained to the men what we were going to do. Not a bad way of teaching, but I have never seen anyone else doing this. Enjoyed your posting, Ed Astrid From binkster@binkster.net Mon May 1 10:40:04 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41Ee4JV027567 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:40:04 -0400 Received: from mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.8]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41EXMM5014663 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9318 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 14:33:22 -0000 Received: from dsl092-189-065.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO [192.168.1.101]) (binksternet@[66.92.189.65]) (envelope-sender ) by mail6.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 1 May 2006 14:33:21 -0000 Message-ID: <44561CF2.9020302@binkster.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 07:36:34 -0700 From: Michael Knowles User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milongueros celebrate birthdays in May X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 14:40:04 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 Janis, are there no milongueras celebrating birthdays in May? -- Michael 'Bink' Knowles binkster@binkster.net www.binkster.net From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Mon May 1 11:20:37 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41FKbiV002115 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:20:37 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f27.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.37]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41FKa9n025731 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:20:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:20:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 15:20:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:20:31 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2006 15:20:36.0057 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBBCAC90:01C66D32] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:20:37 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 96 This coming Tuesday will be released "Lunatico", the second album of the creators of the "Electronic Tango". Their first Album was "La Revancha del Tango" released in the year 2001, with more than one million disks sold all over the world. Lunatico (the word) refers to the famous race horse of Carlos Gardel. It was recorded both in Buenos Aires and in Paris. The Gotan trio is composed by Philippe Cohen Solal, Christoph Muller and Eduardo Makaroff. They had contributions for this second album, from Juan Carlos Caceres, Minino Garay, Nestor Marconi, Juanjo Mosalini, Gustavo Beytelman and the Calexico group. The duo Koxmox (Apolo Novax and Chili Parker) have an original rap performance. All the themes were composed by the trio except "Paris, Texas" by Ry Cooder. this last theme was modified by Gotan in the form of a Baguala ( folkloric Argentine music). What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music? Have a nice day, Sergio _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From doyleed@gmail.com Mon May 1 11:39:17 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41FdHcN006499 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:39:17 -0400 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.232]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41FdE2F022577 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so2160293wra for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=X7massCKrHvbZengxRRk6so5H0t1YNRgobwiS42PxAJnWyyY8dGGk0D/Nn2WmiLI1Qdhb4hd2IGsY4920bPYz0cGKm+qOsB9W1wONk//OscWv6tB/3gU3WZrXaVNhi6X2Y9Q9ZsJo2JRsNTC1DF8bwFOVGhLZYD57UAKGX8w/XQ= Received: by 10.54.126.13 with SMTP id y13mr290624wrc; Mon, 01 May 2006 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.66.4 with HTTP; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <183484970605010839q13ea5533i884ab7aa7f594933@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:39:14 -0500 From: "Ed Doyle" To: "Robert Wallace" Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_[Tango-L]_2=A2_worth_from_a_beginner?= In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: -2.443 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41FdHcN006499 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:39:17 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 Hi Robert, I too am a beginner (about one year of tango experience) and I too am addicted to it. You make a lot of good points in your post. I will address a few that struck a chord with me because I have just been or am there too. I too was hesitant about going to milongas, and just wanted to take lessons. When I finally did go to a milonga, it was a disaster - I had no skill to get around the floor and felt I was always in the way of other leaders. But I have learned, you MUST take lessons, go to practicas, and go to milongas. Each play an important part in learning tango. Go to the milongas and try to dance as much as you can. It will be hard at first as most experienced followers do not want to dance with beginners. This is sad, as we need them in order for us to get better. I have found if when you approach an experienced follower, if you tell them you admire their dancing, you are a beginner, and would they just do one dance with you - not a whole tanda, often they will commit to one dance. For a while, you may have to be satisfied with just dancing one dance out of a tanda. Also, look around for ladies that are sitting and watching, particularly older ladies. While you make think it would be neat to dance with the young sexy girls, if you really want to learn tango, I find it is the older ladies that know how to dance and want to dance and sometimes will help a beginner. You can dance with the young sexy girls later, they will always be there. Anyway - try to dance as often as you can. If there is any way you can find a practice partner to go to a practica with you, try to just work on one or two things at a time. Ask the lady if there is something she would like to practice. Often ladies have something they would like to practice or improve, but they only get a chance now and then when someone leads them in it. An example is the molinnette in both directions (clockwise and counterclockwise). I have found a number of ladies that want to practice this and will ask me to lead this so they can practice (be careful not to overdo is and get them dizzy). I too have experienced instructors that conflict with each other, some that speak terrible English, some that are very impatient and seem to make fun of me, and some that are wonderful, caring, and very helpful. My advice, is take as many lessons as you can from as many instructors as you can. Try to take the best and leave the rest. i.e. do what works for you, but try it all. Don't let tango-l frustrate you. There are many strong opinions voiced here, most based on different personal experiences and different cultures, backgrounds, geographic locations, purists, and some who just like talk (write). Again, this dance is your dance - dance it the way it works for you - be that close embrace, open embrace, elastic embrace. The most important thing is that you, your partner, the music, the floor, the other dancers all connect. If you are lucky, you will have a beautiful tango moment, or moments, which is what keeps all of us coming back for more and more and more. So Robert, keep at it. Dance as much as you can, listen to the music as much as you can, work on your posture, read and learn, but don't stress out over it. Above all, dance from your heart. Feel it, and don't try to emulate anyone else. Do what works for you. Best of Luck Ed On 5/1/06, Robert Wallace wrote: > I have been taking A Tango lessons for about three months and > monitoring the list for for the same time. What a valuable resource > the list is for new dancers. However, this has been my experience > since falling "head over heels" in love with this dance, no pun > intended. I have been taking my lessons at a local college in the > evenings about twice and sometimes three times a week. So far, I have > been exposed to six different instructors of various experience > levels. The difference between the instructors is tremendous and > varies a great deal. Sometimes I just want to quit because I can't > learn well from a couple the instructors. Their ability to > communicate in English is terrible and they become impatient when the > students don't pick up on the lesson quickly. Unfortunately, I can't > do much about the quality of instruction nor the variety of > "teachers". So here I am feeling very insecure in the dance, little > if any repertoire to use, and left with the impression that the > university would rather promote the lessons to only "young handsome > leads". The lessons vary a great deal in quality from class to class > and the price varies from $3.00 for the students to $15.00 for adults > from one of the more respected instructors. > > Already, I have observed that there are instructors and students > alike that I just don't want to dance with. The most important > quality I look for in an instructor is how they communicate. Can they > communicate well and read the feedback from an inexperienced student > and understand the student's confusion when learning something new. > Secondly, I look at how well they dance on the floor when they are > not instructing. Lacking much experience, I am easily impressed but I > have several tapes and CDs of some famous A Tango dancers and use > them as a guide or model. So far, with the seven different > instructors, I have been impressed with only one. He is great and > makes me feel good about my progress. He gives a four hour seminar > every few months and I will be taking another seminar from him in > June. I live for that seminar and know that I will be able to "knit > together" from his teaching and move to a new higher level. > > Overall, the progress I am making is very slow and am somewhat > bewildered and confused. I don't have enough confidence to even > attend a Milonga yet, but I go and watch. I know eventually I'll > learn because I'm committed to learning and dedicated to dancing > well. In the meantime, reading your posts is good but I am sometimes > embarrassed for the way some "flame" the viewpoints of others. I > would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may pass along. The > tango community is so small in Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get > enough dancers together to go for coffee after the lessons. Many of > you are so fortunate to be able to live near large centers of A Tango > dance and to be able to learn from the "greats". I suppose someday > I'll have to make the pilgrimage to BA just to see how they dance there. > > To comment on the open vs close embrace issue... my best instructor > teaches open embrace 90% of the time but has instructed us in close > embrace a few times. However, few if any of the followers want to do > close embrace that it becomes a mute issue. Since I'm large and > "portly" few followers are comfortable with me rubbing my belly > against theirs. But I'm working on that and that's another story. I > think close embrace is beautiful and hope to be able to add it to my > routine. > > Flame away, > > Robert Wallace > > > "If you would not be forgotten > As soon as you are rotten, > Either write things worth reading, > Or do things worth writing." > > -Ben Franklin > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Mon May 1 11:42:40 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41FgeBv007059 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:42:40 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f16.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.26]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41FgbeC026972 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 11:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 May 2006 08:42:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 15:42:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:42:34 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2006 15:42:36.0804 (UTC) FILETIME=[DEF6AC40:01C66D35] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:42:40 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 Meredith says: " Some people were having trouble viewing the .mp4 of Andres & Geraldine that I posted a couple days ago. The video is now available as an .mov that will play in Quicktime. The file size is large, however, so it may be best to download it and then watch it, instead of streaming it. http://andresamarilla.com/video.htm Thanks!" For those that think that any move of tango may be done in close embrace I recommend that they watch the Andres Amarilla Videos (Nuevo Tango) and try to reproduce his figures in close embrace. Good luck, when you are done please kindly make a video and let me see you doing it. Have a great time practicing, Sergio. _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From jjg@jqhome.net Mon May 1 12:04:03 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41G43oX010989 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:04:03 -0400 Received: from host2.globalsecureserver.com (host2.globalsecureserver.com [209.239.35.27]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41G42HB027914 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [141.142.222.45] (ashigaru.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.222.45]) by host2.globalsecureserver.com (8.13.6/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k41G40kp025596 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:04:00 -0400 Message-ID: <4456315B.9050402@jqhome.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:03:39 -0400 From: Jeff Gaynor User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (OS/2/20050720) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:04:03 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 99 Sergio Vandekier wrote: > > > What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music? > was a professional musician for several years and play organ. These sorts of purity debates have been raging in that community for many years. So is organ music (oldest unbroken lineage of any instrument except voice) to be revered to the point it becomes a museum piece? The consensus that formed there is that if it does, then it will no longer be seen as a part of the current culture and will wilt. Now organ is often the only live instrument most people hear on a regular basis and that gives us a special status. Especially with the introduction of -- you got it -- heavily electronic music in most places where organs were used it has becomes important to hop in there and hold our own. The point is that if people see that it is part of the landscape, it is actively being written for and is well-loved then it will remain viable. I thing large parts of this argument carry over in to the discussion of new tango music. Tango is also in the same boat as classical music. In truth, classical music is *not* part of the popular landscape and is a completely foreign import (in all the New World too). As such people rightfully think of it as alien. We don't want to let people get comfortable with the idea that it is something done as a performance medium in a distant land, for it will surely stay that way. So, onto tango proper and your question: I think it might be unavoidable. The current style of heavy bass and synthesizers is what most people associate with current pop music. Practically, synthesizers are much easier to find (and learn) than a bandoneon. Now the outward sound of the music is a matter of current taste and is apt to change in a few years. As long as whoever writes danceable tangos that are otherwise stylisticly accurate I personally don't have much of an issue with it. After all, if you played what we consider to be a Golden Era tango (say, di Sarli ca. 1950) for someone living in about 1900 they would probably find it overdone (di Sarli used up to 3 bandoneons at one point). These changes *should* reflect that tango is alive & well & still a valid, growing medium. This means that people will experiment and sometimes that may or may not work which is the price you pay. Be thankful they are trying and be supportive too. My $.02, Jeff From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Mon May 1 12:12:01 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41GC1Cs011850 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:12:01 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail05.cavtel.net [64.83.1.225]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41GBucZ008681 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cavtel.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail05) with ESMTP id 314442637 for multiple; Mon, 01 May 2006 12:11:55 -0400 Sender: tangomaniac@cavtel.net From: "Michael" To: "Sergio Vandekier" , tango-l@mit.edu X-Originating-IP: 63.162.143.5 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 04:11:53 -1200 Message-id: <44563349.79.58c3.12267@cavtel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Authenticated-User: tangomaniac@cavtel.net X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:12:01 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 100 > For those that think that any move of tango may be done in > close embrace I recommend that they watch the Andres > Amarilla Videos (Nuevo Tango) and try to reproduce his > figures in close embrace. > > Good luck, when you are done please kindly make a video > and let me see you doing it. > > Have a great time practicing, Sergio. ************************************************************************* Without looking at the video, if it's not SOCIAL tango, I'm not interested. SHOW tango doesn't interest me. Michael Washington, DC From jantango@feedback.net.ar Mon May 1 12:46:00 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41Gk0xw016741 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:46:00 -0400 Received: from radio.feedback.net.ar ([200.51.104.3]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41Gjs5k021762 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:45:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from default (host182.200.61.143.ifxnw.com.ar [200.61.143.182]) by radio.feedback.net.ar (Postfix) with SMTP id 71DD137C23; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:45:54 -0300 (ART) Message-ID: <002001c66d3f$914010e0$b68f3dc8@default> From: "Janis Kenyon" To: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:51:58 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Spam-Score: -2.399 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:46:00 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 I am a regular viewer of Codigos de Milongas, a new program on Solo Tango which follows young men at home to the milonga with a commentary by men who have danced tango for many years. Program #2 presented Damian (23) who spoke about taking many classes and then privates to learn. He learns the hard way when he approaches a girl at her table in Plaza Bohemia. She refused him, so he went to ask another girl who accepted. Carlos Matera (organizer of Sunderland) was speechless when he saw Damian wearing jeans to a milonga. Matera wasn't in agreement with anything Damian did or said. Program #3 had Jonathan (21) showing his white shirt and jacket, but putting on a black t-shirt and pants. He talked about the importance of the codes, but complained about getting excuses when girls didn't want to dance with him. He carried his shoes in a bag, which never existed when Roberto Dentone was young, who commented "muy loco." Jonathan went to invite a girl to dance as soon as the guy at her table went to the men's room. After he danced with the girl, Roberto commented, "Tango is an embrace. He broke the embrace. He needs to keep his head straight to be more elegant." Program #4 showed Gaspar (20) wearing a t-shirt, pants, and sneakers. Salvador A. Molinari (Tito) pointed out that he's wearing comfortable clothing, but if a woman spends an hour doing her hair, makeup and getting dressed to dance, the least a man can do is to wear good shoes. Tito noted that he didn't bother to use deodorant or cologne. Gaspar went to La Viruta and approached a girl at her table. Tito remarked that this obligates a woman when she might have a commitment with someone else. Program #5 has Hernan (24) calling Gricel for a reservation on a Friday night. He wears a t-shirt and sneakers, so he feels out of place entering Gricel where all the men are wearing suits. He walks around looking for someone close to his age and finds a table nearby. He's the first one to use a head movement to invite a young woman. In his critique, Julio Cesar Rodriguez says sneakers are for the gimnasium, shoes are for the dance salon. In Program #6, Hugo (28) goes to Villa Malcolm where he invites a woman to dance before he has seen her dancing. He approaches her table and motions with his arm to invite her; she accepts because she has been looking at him since he sat down. He soon realizes that she isn't at his level, but makes the best of it. Oscar Steimez predicts that he won't want to dance with her again; later Hugo confirms this. I would like to see this program follow a real milonguero at home and at the milonga. New dancers could benefit from their many years of experience. Saturdays at 5:00pm; Mondays at 10:00pm Solo Tango TV - Canal 7 Cablevision www.tangocity.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Mon May 1 12:54:13 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41GsDjt018265 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:54:13 -0400 Received: from web54702.mail.yahoo.com (web54702.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.192]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41GsB6J005474 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 66059 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 16:54:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eeMPAFz773pCxxUDD2dd89wor6j5VriCzOZJo5x1saKfhgUlC9VNXN0rzRYHhktAT5TuiVUn+2SFgwBFPfF0Er5uWawjsN3ie+U+NEgZx3EzSB/tzfJzjihzgtEjx3VsBcw6Qc1CBYB3a08j1DtRn6uw3y5VqAWuSwlBeq7J/sw= ; Message-ID: <20060501165411.66057.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 09:54:11 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Michael , Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <44563349.79.58c3.12267@cavtel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:54:13 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 Dear Michael: Maybe you and Sean and Trini can demonstrate all these moves for us in "close embrace all the time" in a video, but now we suddenly hear than you yourself are not interested. Why is that???? Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Michael wrote: > > For those that think that any move of tango may be > done in > > close embrace I recommend that they watch the > Andres > > Amarilla Videos (Nuevo Tango) and try to > reproduce his > > figures in close embrace. > > > > Good luck, when you are done please kindly make > a video > > and let me see you doing it. > > > > Have a great time practicing, Sergio. > ************************************************************************* > Without looking at the video, if it's not SOCIAL > tango, I'm > not interested. > SHOW tango doesn't interest me. > > Michael > Washington, DC > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From doug@thetangocatalogue.com Mon May 1 12:55:56 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41Gtpbj018552 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:55:56 -0400 Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41GtiDI005321 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:55:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([68.160.35.4]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPA id <0IYL002Q5J0TKOYC@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for tango-l@mit.edu; Mon, 01 May 2006 11:55:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:57:01 -0400 From: Doug Pouliot In-reply-to: <4456315B.9050402@jqhome.net> To: Jeff Gaynor , Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.6 X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41Gtpbj018552 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:55:56 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 We are selling the new Gotan CD "Lunático". If anyone is interested... Best, Doug Pouliot -- Operations The Tango Catalogue The Authority on Argentine Tango Boston MA USA -- E-mail doug@thetangocatalogue.com, thetangocatalogue@yahoo.com Website http://www.thetangocatalogue.com/ Online Catalogue http://www.thetangocatalogue.com/thetangocatalogue.pdf 888-382-6467 (US/Canada) 617-666-8518 Voice 617-666-4316 Fax SKYPE USER ID: dougdances on 5/1/06 12:03 PM, Jeff Gaynor at jjg@jqhome.net wrote: > Sergio Vandekier wrote: > >> >> >> What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music? >> > was a professional musician for several years and play organ. These > sorts of purity debates have been raging in that community for many > years. So is organ music (oldest unbroken lineage of any instrument > except voice) to be revered to the point it becomes a museum piece? The > consensus that formed there is that if it does, then it will no longer > be seen as a part of the current culture and will wilt. Now organ is > often the only live instrument most people hear on a regular basis and > that gives us a special status. Especially with the introduction of -- > you got it -- heavily electronic music in most places where organs were > used it has becomes important to hop in there and hold our own. The > point is that if people see that it is part of the landscape, it is > actively being written for and is well-loved then it will remain viable. > I thing large parts of this argument carry over in to the discussion of > new tango music. Tango is also in the same boat as classical music. In > truth, classical music is *not* part of the popular landscape and is a > completely foreign import (in all the New World too). As such people > rightfully think of it as alien. We don't want to let people get > comfortable with the idea that it is something done as a performance > medium in a distant land, for it will surely stay that way. > > So, onto tango proper and your question: I think it might be > unavoidable. The current style of heavy bass and synthesizers is what > most people associate with current pop music. Practically, synthesizers > are much easier to find (and learn) than a bandoneon. Now the outward > sound of the music is a matter of current taste and is apt to change in > a few years. As long as whoever writes danceable tangos that are > otherwise stylisticly accurate I personally don't have much of an issue > with it. After all, if you played what we consider to be a Golden Era > tango (say, di Sarli ca. 1950) for someone living in about 1900 they > would probably find it overdone (di Sarli used up to 3 bandoneons at one > point). > > These changes *should* reflect that tango is alive & well & still a > valid, growing medium. This means that people will experiment and > sometimes that may or may not work which is the price you pay. Be > thankful they are trying and be supportive too. > > My $.02, > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From tangaux02@yahoo.com Mon May 1 12:57:06 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41Gv6El018711 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:57:06 -0400 Received: from web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.85.25]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41Gv19O009564 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 12:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 85541 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 16:57:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iT4TKhEQukLgRbahNp/pzW7Sl85WaIJsB76J/t0/BhcxMV9xGzwuw3T8EQSuXjoQnHwDwzPozULVqvPtbpasdiAMVRvm2kYdt5dN/eaHcyrq+L52D4/XMaguJd+B/WvAeZbvTr9G2gMwCL7TA8WMY0lAkbRcMiBoz7TNNBY4eXY= ; Message-ID: <20060501165701.85535.qmail@web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.91.11.144] by web36608.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 09:57:00 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Linda A." To: tango-L list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 16:57:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 Wow. What an insult. I've seen Andres and Meredith dance several times at milongas, and not once have I ever seen them collide with anyone, or interrupt the flow of the ronda, or fail to follow the music. Yes, their video clips are mostly performances, but they're also excellent social dancers. --L ************************************************************************* Without looking at the video, if it's not SOCIAL tango, I'm not interested. SHOW tango doesn't interest me. Michael Washington, DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Mon May 1 13:31:44 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41HVixE026387 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:31:44 -0400 Received: from web54710.mail.yahoo.com (web54710.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.200]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41HVgbO010915 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:31:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 766 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 17:31:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=12chl0wJEyIoLgIzoqpzk/0hI20CIZK25UoGLeo5EVRjyIsPCrohTTvEosmMbm0y0ruV6UrwK8qcFU6xMFGg9GWK2M2L8VFvfNhW2JEAnaVMabMOcsirPNVnTVK+vABMiSknbbNYJv5dteKk6KDpuPLEdpkoKg8J5KGO0QDXQ0A= ; Message-ID: <20060501173142.764.qmail@web54710.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54710.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 10:31:42 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:31:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Meredith Klein , Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <34cd2b720605010725i20c77f8ar646329e825d9118f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres & Geraldine for Quicktime - Wow! The video from 1993 speaks for itself X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 17:31:44 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 Dear Meredith: I just saw the historical video of Andres dancing from way back in 1993 at: http://www.andresamarilla.com/video.htm Wow! The video pretty much speaks for itself. Thanks so much for sharing that with us. Derik d.rawsonweb@rawsonweb.com --- Meredith Klein wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Some people were having trouble viewing the .mp4 of > Andres & Geraldine > that I posted a couple days ago. The video is now > available as an > .mov that will play in Quicktime. The file size is > large, however, so > it may be best to download it and then watch it, > instead of streaming > it. > > http://andresamarilla.com/video.htm > > Thanks! > > Meredith > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com Mon May 1 13:35:34 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41HZYAT027017 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:35:34 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f5.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.15]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41HZWVY019385 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 May 2006 10:35:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:29 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.70.149.87] X-Originating-Email: [sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com] X-Sender: sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com From: "Sergio Vandekier" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:29 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2006 17:35:32.0424 (UTC) FILETIME=[A58C3C80:01C66D45] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Social tango X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 17:35:34 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 I think that at this point it is important to define 'Social Tango'. As you know the first division of tango in Argentina is Salon (the one done socially at the salons or clubs) and Stage (the one performed for exhibitions or on stage). IMO when people gather to socialize and dance they are doing 'social dancing' irrespective of the style they are doing. So people may gather to do Salon Open embrace or Nuevo tango and this is Social dancing. People may do an exhibition in close embrace tango and this is Stage tango. What do you think? Sergio _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar Mon May 1 13:39:54 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41HdsVm028916 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:39:54 -0400 Received: from web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.83]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41Hdhv1025904 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 74589 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 17:39:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.ar; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WdPR1hc6cVu+9BURGFH8loaKY2TbOn1/Y9Kc9mR24ii6N3Vgz5DBMw7F9N5KF/jF+TnCTJY/tMZer5Lgz/YCSHg2shsThBmkgipFFn6POqc0ho/Vl47505segqNWpsm2FsDsmS7YMIIqXgH6A+XB3HMqX35SUbZSzu/rBBwEzWE= ; Message-ID: <20060501173943.74587.qmail@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.128.166.68] by web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 17:39:43 GMT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 17:39:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Lucia To: Michael , Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <44563349.79.58c3.12267@cavtel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -2.224 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla - a demo of Phlegmatic Tango.. X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 17:39:54 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 This is not Show Tango, it is Phlegmatic Tango... Lucia Michael escribió: SHOW tango doesn't interest me. http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/flat3.asp?id=2287 __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ˇgratis! ˇAbrí tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar From ipolk@virtuar.com Mon May 1 13:58:23 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41HwNMS032695 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:58:23 -0400 Received: from esc29.midphase.com (esc29.midphase.com [66.225.255.105]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41HwISU027149 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 13:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c-69-181-218-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.218.66] helo=paul) by esc29.midphase.com with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FaceR-0001H6-Ie for TANGO-L@MIT.EDU; Mon, 01 May 2006 12:57:41 -0500 From: "Igor Polk" To: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:59:10 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - esc29.midphase.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mit.edu X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - virtuar.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] I am going to Denver! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 17:58:23 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 Quite a few people asked me if I am going to Memorial Day Tango Festival in Denver. I am going (Fri-Mon), just booked the tickets, and I am very excited about it! It is my pleasure to meet you there! Igor Polk PS. I do not know how everyone ( most ) looks, so do not hesitate to say hello if you have recognized me: http://www.virtuar.com/tango/pics/teresa.htm or ask Tom. Of course, these pictures are misleading: I am short and in glasses 8) From patangos@yahoo.com Mon May 1 14:17:55 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41IHthB003226 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:17:55 -0400 Received: from web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.131]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41IHrB2028638 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 44079 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 18:17:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wod386ezU+4muqedRTjRayu7S6IxibrkvXqykRXcbnIVbwz3t4NjWQjF+Z/cc1Ws89tm+2ZCHvP9JF3eo+7pkISTt8ZYk6xigRWuO79v2jjqkhtEpiNEfP6v7H80LRLGttRy1lllnb5GC7zR2XhP7mOYsRcxCVebdp2elah39Io= ; Message-ID: <20060501181753.44077.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.197.98] by web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 11:17:53 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 11:17:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060430171234.34459.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.504 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] stuff X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 18:17:56 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 Dear Derik, Sorry it took so long to respond, but I was out-of-town. Thank you for finally being specific about what your issues are. I can now understand what drives so many of your posts. It is much nicer when you articulate your thoughts in a less derogatory manner. Since virtually everyone on this list agrees with you that people can dance whatever they want, then I think you are dealing with a local issue. Perhaps you should address it first in your own community instead of in an international forum. Good luck with that. Dear Sergio, Excellent posts! Thank you for taking the time to be so comprehensive. Dear David, Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Dear Janis, Thanks for sharing the Solo Tango episodes. That show sounds quite interesting. Have a good day! Trini de Pittsburgh --- Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Trini: > > --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" > wrote: > > "it is rude for you to place your values on others > on > something so personal and intimate." > > The problem I have with the "close embrace all the > time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to > spread that ignorance around, by promoting their own > inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all > the > time people" would just dance the way they want to > and > leave other people alone (not try to teach their > ignorance), then I would have no problem with them > at > all. > > I agree with you that personal taste is OK. > Everyone > has their own tango. I have said this many times. > We > dancers should choose our tango teachers ourselves. > We > should not have a tango teachers recruit and choose > us > as their victims, and tell us that we are > inexperienced fools. > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com Mon May 1 14:44:46 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41Iik9l008194 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:44:46 -0400 Received: from smtp-01.arnet.com.ar (smtp-01.arnet.com.ar [200.45.191.24]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41Iijsg007313 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 14:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 13801 invoked from network); 1 May 2006 15:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (201.252.9.25) by smtp-01.arnet.com.ar with SMTP; 1 May 2006 15:41:56 -0000 Message-ID: <445656F6.8030103@lavidacondeby.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:44:06 -0300 From: Deby Novitz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] milongueras birthdays X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 18:44:47 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 Well mine is in May..but then maybe I am not old enough to be a milonguera...(a joke ok you guys...you all have different perceptions of this word.) But I will be celebrating my birthday in a milonga with 2 other friends (both women who dance tango) in some milonga on Wed May 24. This is the day before our national holiday celebrating Argentina's independence. From patangos@yahoo.com Mon May 1 15:32:05 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41JW5gT016409 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:32:05 -0400 Received: from web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.128]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41JVxnb017169 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 9048 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 19:31:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Qh7+HGAQXLc8AKc0a5D5KmfU1LEJ831cxAx00uAvPeZ6+8PDgBrwpCjmb6FwthL892irc2mttdykbFDIBBL4KQpxBWgZkIWe2frJLj3o/Vm4hemnMW1ac4RTzRGunA3CW+RhjapSv0iaAji6KVxQoYxgktWDP853WKe7Gf+GIts= ; Message-ID: <20060501193159.9046.qmail@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.102.26] by web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 12:31:59 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:31:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: <44563349.79.58c3.12267@cavtel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 19:32:05 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 Hi Michael, Sean here. You've seen me dance. I trust you will agree that no one will ever mistake me for a show dancer (unless, as Sergio has pointed out, I'm doing an exhibition ;) And yet, I have started to incorporate many of the things he taught into my social dance. Not the steps so much as the broader concepts like managing energy, managing space, and managing the embrace. Don't be afraid to explore instructors with different points of view. They might provide a key to understanding the more subtle points of your old favorites. Derek and I seem to disagree on every possible point, except that we both like Andres' teaching. There must be something to that. Andres was at the same milonga where we last saw each other. Remember those guys who were making a mess of the ronda with their flashy moves? Andres wasn't one of them. Sean --- Michael wrote: Without looking at the video, if it's not SOCIAL tango, I'm not interested. SHOW tango doesn't interest me. Michael Washington, DC PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From spiritusvero_979@yahoo.com Mon May 1 15:47:28 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41JlSCV019016 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:47:28 -0400 Received: from web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.246]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41JlMiH008702 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 15:47:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12356 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 19:47:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=m44m70B1nQ9BIlsPSXwyKHpIwmUFFHnUjfywm+mMELv3/8m6/gKIyeHaVa4WdcRkIgQKWUU0aylgDrAsQIPnKHkbBwZfHaoESjzPKaNu8uxdh0JebibjdzCU9oineR12wA7ILdUK9+uZW3VlwvgPjWF1mXzFaZzWzdXXy9iQg9c= ; Message-ID: <20060501194721.12354.qmail@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.2.141.4] by web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 12:47:21 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 12:47:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Irina To: Tango-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.817 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: [Tango-L] please unsubscribe X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 19:47:28 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 please unsubscribe --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone. From tangomaniac@cavtel.net Mon May 1 16:23:11 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41KNBDb025071 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:23:11 -0400 Received: from cavtel.net (rcmdxmail05.cavtel.net [64.83.1.225]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41KN6bb027490 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:23:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cavtel.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by cavtel.net (Cavalier email server mail05) with ESMTP id 314715520 for multiple; Mon, 01 May 2006 16:23:05 -0400 Sender: tangomaniac@cavtel.net From: "Michael" To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com, Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu X-Originating-IP: 63.162.143.5 Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 08:23:05 -1200 Message-id: <44566e29.c5.1cb5.21806@cavtel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Authenticated-User: tangomaniac@cavtel.net X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 20:23:11 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 > Dear Michael: > > Maybe you and Sean and Trini can demonstrate all these > moves for us in "close embrace all the time" in a > video, but now we suddenly hear than you yourself are > not interested. Why is that???? > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com ************************************************************************* Derik: You have a pernicious habit of stringing extraneous writing and presenting it as one thought. When I say social dancing, I mean dancing on a crowded dance floor where there is insufficient space for wild figures. Based on Sergio's description of the video, it sounded like a lot of room is necessary because he wanted to see somebody execute Andres's figures in close embrace. If Andres and his partner have the entire floor to themselves for their video, they can do anything. If they go to Tom Stermitz's Memorial Day Festival in Denver, they won't have the space. I went to last year's festival and found I barely had enough room to breathe. My definition of social tango is dancing on a crowded dance floor where navigation is more important than figures. At the last all night milonga in New York, a careless woman executed a very high boleo, kicking my partner in the ribs. The second time she kicked the table we were sitting. You still haven't answered my question to you. Name some figures YOU can't do in close embrace. Better yet, why don't you go down to BA and teach the Argentines how to dance since you know so much. Go complain to some milongueros their dance is boring to you. Tell the DJ his music selection is terrible because he's pacifying the close embrace crowd. I'm sure I could get a collection from the list to buy you a ONE WAY plane ticket. Michael Washington, DC Allergies better today > > --- Michael wrote: > > > > For those that think that any move of tango may be done in close embrace I recommend that they watch the Andres Amarilla Videos (Nuevo Tango) and try to reproduce his figures in close embrace. > > > Sergio. > > > ********************************************************** > > *************** Without looking at the video, if it's > > not SOCIAL tango, I'm > > not interested. > > SHOW tango doesn't interest me. > > > > Michael > > Washington, DC From Mallpasso@aol.com Mon May 1 16:24:06 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41KO6Fx025258 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:24:06 -0400 Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41KO1Fg028597 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Mallpasso@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.5.) id 6.3cc.208288e (39953) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:23:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Mallpasso@aol.com Message-ID: <3cc.208288e.3187c856@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 16:23:50 EDT To: TANGO-L@mit.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5056 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.264 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] I am going to Denver! X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 20:24:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 I went to Sacramento's Tango Renaissance this past weekend (Thursday through Sunday) and I had a fabulous time. I think this event has legs as it's only it's second year but the teachers were tops (Sebastian Arce, Mariana Montes, Chicho Frumboli, Mariana Dragone, Esteban Moreno, Claudia Codega) and the attendance was full with a sizeable contingent from the SF Bay Area. I certainly will be back next year! El Bandido de Tango In a message dated 5/1/2006 10:59:14 Pacific Daylight Time, ipolk@virtuar.com writes: Quite a few people asked me if I am going to Memorial Day Tango Festival in Denver. I am going (Fri-Mon), just booked the tickets, and I am very excited about it! It is my pleasure to meet you there! Igor Polk PS. I do not know how everyone ( most ) looks, so do not hesitate to say hello if you have recognized me: http://www.virtuar.com/tango/pics/teresa.htm or ask Tom. Of course, these pictures are misleading: I am short and in glasses 8) _______________________________________________ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l From aron@milonga.hu Mon May 1 16:49:46 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41KnkEK028782 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:49:46 -0400 Received: from graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu [195.228.240.79]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41KniOP003469 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.mail.t-online.hu [127.0.0.1]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BBD31EBEC3 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 22:49:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.t-online.hu (karoly.axelero.hu [195.228.240.245]) by graveyard3.mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8A91EC341 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 22:49:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from NCC1701E (catv3EC955F0.pool.t-online.hu [62.201.85.240]) by mail.t-online.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 22:49:32 +0200 (CEST) From: "Aron ECSEDY" To: "Tango-L" Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 22:49:26 +0200 Message-ID: <004401c66d60$c1747280$6501a8c0@NCC1701E> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <44566e29.c5.1cb5.21806@cavtel.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Thread-Index: AcZtW4SOA7VHq1NzTSiNxBjd9nQn9gAArYeQ X-Spam-Score: -2.464 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k41KnkEK028782 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 20:49:46 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 The pros and contras have already been layed out, but this is - again - a debate over taste. As for navigation and whether it is social dancing or not - that is entirely independent from the embrace. I can dance close embrace and easily fill a 15x20m stage if I wish, with boleos, ganchos, back sacadas, whatever and vice versa. As for critizing Andres: Michael, you should first check him out at a milonga and THEN say he can't do something (yes: and tell him first that you want to see him dancing close embrace, as it is couple's CHOICE to pick one or another form of embrace). Aron Ecsedy Áron *********** Aron ECSEDY Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99 AIM: ecsedya ICQ: 46386265 Skype: ecsedyaron Yahoo Messenger: ecsedya MSN Messenger: aron_ecsedy@msn.com http://www.holgyvalasz.hu/ * * * * * http://www.milonga.hu/ Az iWiW-en megtalálhatsz - Find me at iWiW (http://www.iwiw.net/) > -----Original Message----- > From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu > [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Michael > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:23 PM > To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com; Sergio Vandekier; tango-l@mit.edu > Cc: tangomaniac@cavtel.net > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Andres Amarilla in close embrace > > > Dear Michael: > > > > Maybe you and Sean and Trini can demonstrate all these > moves for us in > > "close embrace all the time" in a video, but now we > suddenly hear than > > you yourself are not interested. Why is that???? > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > ************************************************************** > *********** > Derik: > You have a pernicious habit of stringing extraneous writing > and presenting it as one thought. > > When I say social dancing, I mean dancing on a crowded dance > floor where there is insufficient space for wild figures. > Based on Sergio's description of the video, it sounded like a > lot of room is necessary because he wanted to see somebody > execute Andres's figures in close embrace. > > If Andres and his partner have the entire floor to themselves > for their video, they can do anything. If they go to Tom > Stermitz's Memorial Day Festival in Denver, they won't have > the space. I went to last year's festival and found I barely > had enough room to breathe. > > My definition of social tango is dancing on a crowded dance > floor where navigation is more important than figures. At the > last all night milonga in New York, a careless woman executed > a very high boleo, kicking my partner in the ribs. > The second time she kicked the table we were sitting. > > You still haven't answered my question to you. Name some > figures YOU can't do in close embrace. > > Better yet, why don't you go down to BA and teach the > Argentines how to dance since you know so much. Go complain > to some milongueros their dance is boring to you. Tell the DJ > his music selection is terrible because he's pacifying the > close embrace crowd. I'm sure I could get a collection from > the list to buy you a ONE WAY plane ticket. > > Michael > Washington, DC > Allergies better today > > > > > --- Michael wrote: > > > > > > For those that think that any move of tango may be > done in close embrace I recommend that they watch the Andres > Amarilla Videos (Nuevo Tango) and try to reproduce his > figures in close embrace. > > > > Sergio. > > > > > ********************************************************** > > > *************** Without looking at the video, if it's not SOCIAL > > > tango, I'm not interested. > > > SHOW tango doesn't interest me. > > > > > > Michael > > > Washington, DC > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Mon May 1 17:04:57 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41L4vDM031640 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 17:04:57 -0400 Received: from web54713.mail.yahoo.com (web54713.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.203]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41L4tUN026257 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 17:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 50266 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 21:04:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iaiHQJPqf+wuEOKg2gyOJKtVdS08kMO/GZ+Q1nmZyzAfOhONP51SYaZa2ZoWJaHWLQXsbF2njLlVMAccyFZ4yBcwEFyS8TqmiWDvkcblPU3OH67mnqGgI13MYbO1xkAOVFcVIlRXAtFjA1iaO/Thh3xE2M+affwl1mSuoQcTVow= ; Message-ID: <20060501210455.50264.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54713.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 14:04:55 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 14:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Sergio Vandekier , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Social tango definition X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 21:04:57 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 Dear Sergo: Your definition of social tango sounds perfectly reasonable. The convoluted definitions of Michael and others are not. --- Sergio Vandekier wrote: > People may do an exhibition in close embrace tango > and this is Stage tango. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Sergio Vandekier wrote: > I think that at this point it is important to define > 'Social Tango'. > > As you know the first division of tango in Argentina > is Salon (the one done > socially at the salons or clubs) and Stage (the one > performed for > exhibitions or on stage). > > IMO when people gather to socialize and dance they > are doing 'social > dancing' irrespective of the style they are doing. > > So people may gather to do Salon Open embrace or > Nuevo tango and this is > Social dancing. > > People may do an exhibition in close embrace tango > and this is Stage tango. > > What do you think? > > Sergio > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get > it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Mon May 1 17:41:17 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41LfHsr004829 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 17:41:17 -0400 Received: from web54712.mail.yahoo.com (web54712.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.202]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41LfBa4015559 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 17:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 71784 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 21:41:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EjlOlNvY1IQFh+4DhhOMLK61Nlhrh5KcVXGpJGs8MI8pY3KggqYx8WlKKyvA0b5QwKx0ZEu6IZlVnC1yFitbwrLW7QWiBkOd3KCsyCv6bPpgSFw1b3nzimqK3PmwRR3WVxVHe4RJAqorn4n7QE9G07zyryfz1Wow1BFmCLTuMVA= ; Message-ID: <20060501214111.71782.qmail@web54712.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54712.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 14:41:11 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 14:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" , Tango-L In-Reply-To: <20060501181753.44077.qmail@web30608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] I guess there will be no video with Michael from D.C....lol. X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 21:41:17 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 117 Dear Trini: I guess there will be no video with Michael from D.C....lol. --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: "Perhaps you should address it first in your own community instead of in an international forum." With all due respect, the problem is right here on this supposed international list which is mostly read by North Americans. This is where the "close embrace all the time" people have been busily promoting themselves. PS - I have addressed the problem in my local community, Houston and finally tango in this city has changed dramatically just in the last year, Thank God. Houston is no longer dominated by the "close embrace all the time" people, as it was in the past. We now have a variety of dancing styles, and teachers coming into town, which is the way it should be. "Close embrace all the time people" are always welcome at all of the milongas, but they just part of the crowd and they are no longer in charge. They are not happy about it, and they are still trying to get back in control, but that is the way things are here for now. We are finally liberated at least for the moment...lol. PPS - What happens on this list is the same as what happens locally, since all of the people here are locals of some city...lol. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" wrote: > Dear Derik, > > Sorry it took so long to respond, but I was > out-of-town. Thank you for finally being specific > about what your issues are. I can now understand > what > drives so many of your posts. It is much nicer when > you articulate your thoughts in a less derogatory > manner. Since virtually everyone on this list > agrees > with you that people can dance whatever they want, > then I think you are dealing with a local issue. > Perhaps you should address it first in your own > community instead of in an international forum. > Good > luck with that. > > > Dear Sergio, > Excellent posts! Thank you for taking the time to > be > so comprehensive. > > > Dear David, > Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! > > > Dear Janis, > Thanks for sharing the Solo Tango episodes. That > show > sounds quite interesting. > > > Have a good day! > Trini de Pittsburgh > > --- Derik Rawson wrote: > > > Dear Trini: > > > > --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" > > wrote: > > > > "it is rude for you to place your values on others > > on > > something so personal and intimate." > > > > The problem I have with the "close embrace all the > > time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to > > spread that ignorance around, by promoting their > own > > inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all > > the > > time people" would just dance the way they want to > > and > > leave other people alone (not try to teach their > > ignorance), then I would have no problem with them > > at > > all. > > > > I agree with you that personal taste is OK. > > Everyone > > has their own tango. I have said this many times. > > > We > > dancers should choose our tango teachers > ourselves. > > We > > should not have a tango teachers recruit and > choose > > us > > as their victims, and tell us that we are > > inexperienced fools. > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's > most popular social dance. > http://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stermitz@tango.org Mon May 1 18:09:32 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41M9Www009800 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 18:09:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41M9RiG024311 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 18:09:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k41M9RdX012660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (vc1-412-1.adsl.indra.com [206.168.200.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k41M9PsY010136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <44566e29.c5.1cb5.21806@cavtel.net> References: <44566e29.c5.1cb5.21806@cavtel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <287C84AF-5189-466F-B05C-090545BA4990@tango.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tom Stermitz Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 16:09:21 -0600 To: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] Correction to Michael's comment on Denver dance floors X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 22:09:32 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 I need to correct something in Michael's comments about the dance floors at the Denver Tango Festivals. Only the Friday night milonga is in a crowded night club setting where it may be "difficult to breath". This is the charm (for some), and the bane (for others). But, most would agree that the atmosphere at the Mercury Cafe feels like their image of a Tango Nightclub. The Tango Colorado Outdoor Milonga and BBQ is in a huge greek-column pavilion in a park, and 450 people find plenty of room to move. The Hotel Ballroom Milongas have plenty of space for someone with decent navigation skills, but would probably not work for someone who wants to do a lot of bigger movements. CREATING CONTEXT FOR SOCIAL DANCING The floors and ballrooms are carefully arranged for social dancing: - The floor has a clearly indicated perimeter - The floor is rectangular, without obstructions. - Walkers have space OFF the floor so they don't disturb the dancers - Tables are arrange OFF the floor so you can sit and watch - Lights are bright enough so you can signal to a partner - Sound system is good and sound levels are uniform More importantly, the dancers are experienced and courteous. Half have been to Buenos Aires, and probably 80% have been to festivals before and understand the codes for good navigating: - Lanes progress steadily around the room, neither racing nor staying in one place - Dancers don't run into others, race up close to them, or do wild kicks - Starting out, the leader waits, then merges onto traffic The DJs are very experienced. They use sets of like-music and breaks (tandas & cortinas) for people to mix with each other. They know how to manage the ebb and flow of emotions and energy, moving from traditional to more modern music with artistry and sensitivity. HITTING ON ALL CYLINDERS I raise these ideas because they are kind of universal for social dancing. First, it is up to the dancers to fit in courteously with the rest of the dancers. Second, the milonga organizer has the power to "create the context" for good dancing. If you think about it, setting up a good milonga (for social dancing) is about arranging all the factors to make it work well. You can miss one or two details and it still usually works, but people have an electric experience when it all comes together. The result: You get everyone navigating nicely and dancing above their normal ability. That is why I disagree with Michael's comment about difficulty of breathing. IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTEXT The arguments about close or open, nuevo, fantasy, social-salon or milonguero are really about what is appropriate to the context, not which style is good or bad. On stage, slick back your hair, wear a slit skirt and boa, or a fedora and a scarf. At a practice, wear dance sneakers and jazz pants. At an elegant salon in Buenos Aires, wear a suit jacket. At an afternoon or evening neighborhood milonga, wear a party dress or slacks and a dress shirt. Or break all the rules if you want: Wear torn jeans on stage, suit jacket to a practice... OTHER CONTEXTS? I'd be interested in how other milonga organizers create the context to encourage Fantasy, Social Salon, Milonguero or Nuevo. On May 1, 2006, at 2:23 PM, Michael wrote: > When I say social dancing, I mean dancing on a crowded dance > floor where there is insufficient space for wild figures. > Based on Sergio's description of the video, it sounded like > a lot of room is necessary because he wanted to see somebody > execute Andres's figures in close embrace. > > If Andres and his partner have the entire floor to > themselves for their video, they can do anything. If they go > to Tom Stermitz's Memorial Day Festival in Denver, they > won't have the space. I went to last year's festival and > found I barely had enough room to breathe. > > My definition of social tango is dancing on a crowded dance > floor where navigation is more important than figures. At > the last all night milonga in New York, a careless woman > executed a very high boleo, kicking my partner in the ribs. > The second time she kicked the table we were sitting. > ... > Michael > Washington, DC > Allergies better today "Suspicion of strangers is a common human trait. But so is curiosity, even fascination. There's a reason that Romeo and Juliet is considered timeless. The social structure has to fight hard to keep each new generation in line." Tom Stermitz http://www.tango.org From patangos@yahoo.com Mon May 1 18:35:30 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41MZUwj014053 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 18:35:30 -0400 Received: from web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.245]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k41MZN0V026656 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 18:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 78416 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2006 22:35:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PdzKhKo3U147RrZX3139mnyAsO/I0kFiJ/N8gESXZFmujYok6yLjJTCbZA6KrkrAUo0hJdocxmuHxYXN1Tm2ZzFLcSHe8RbOTL/tsMqHPZCaJLSllHzdQSJIZmDmWi7dIwGn5m7hyZGmta+dkeS0U50X1hQUV4j6mGE+hYHRYyo= ; Message-ID: <20060501223523.78414.qmail@web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.155.117.26] by web30612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 15:35:23 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" To: Tango-L In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] 2? worth from a beginner X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 22:35:30 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 Hi Robert, Sean here. Welcome to the tango community. About 7 months ago, I posted a report about the growing tango scene in Columbus. At the time I was very excited about your community. Columbus has a vibrant and growing tango community, and could easily become one of the tango jewels of the Midwest. I was at another milonga there April 22nd, and I had a wonderful time. A friendly crowd (maybe 40 people?), a high level of dancing and ice cream! It was organized by CATS, the Columbus Argentine Tango Society (meow) in conjunction with workshops taught by Ney Melo and Jennifer Brat. They taught one of the most practical lessons in musicality that I have ever seen. And I take a lot of musicality workshops, since I am told that it is not my strong suit. I haven't sat in on any classes with the CATS teachers, but I have danced with their beginning students, and I can tell you that they are doing something right! What a rare pleasure. I've danced with the teachers too, an even rarer pleasure. In addition to CATS, http://www.tangocats.com/ check out Tango Bello in Columbus http://www.tangobello.com. I think they are in Italy at the moment, but they will be back in Columbus soon enough. Their teaching philosophy on the welcome page of their website is great. It should be required reading for all dance teachers. I've had wonderful dances with Pamela and Francesco is a pleasure to watch. I would beware of judging teachers by comparison to videos of famous dancers. As Sergio has pointed out, in addition to many styles of social dancing, there is also a distinction between social and performance dancing. When these famous stars finish their exhibition and head to the milonga, their dancing looks very different. But some local teachers who emulate the stars don't seem to get the difference. At least check out videos of as many dancers as you can. The Tango Video Project www.tangovideoproject.com has some great examples. By the way, the author of that website was also at the April 22nd milonga in Columbus. If you want to meet him in person, head for the May Madness festival in Ann Arbor http://www.umich.edu/~umtango/events/madness-may06/. Not exactly Buenos Aries, but a good low budget alternative for a beginner. There is always a group from Columbus there, so you might even get to car pool. The Denver and Portland Festivals are also great places to experience good social tango in the US. I would also recommend you go to these after you have a bit more confidence, and before you go to BA. Our goal at PATangoS is to get our students to a level where they can dance comfortably at a milonga in 6-8 weeks (assuming they show up twice a week and practice on their own). Obviously, we don’t spend a lot of time on vocabulary during those first 6 weeks. We mainly stress the music and communication between partners. If you have been taking classes 2-3 times a week for 3 months, and you are not comfortable going to a milonga, then I think there is not a very good fit between you and your teachers. Part of the problem is having so many different teachers so quickly. I highly recommend that everyone study with as many teachers as they can. But everyone dances and teaches differently. The conflicting information that you must get from different teachers can be hard to resolve until you have a solid foundation. So I recommend that beginners stick with one teacher for the first month or two, unless they are clearly not progressing. Then shop around a bit to find the best fit. Sean P.S. If you really can't find what you need in Columbus, the communities in Pittsburgh, Kent, and Cleveland are each less than 2 hours from you. Cincinatti can't be much further. I was at a wonderful milonga in Cleveland Saturday, with live music from Eternal Tango. --- Robert Wallace wrote: I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may pass along. The tango community is so small in Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get enough dancers together to go for coffee after the lessons. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mariatango@hotmail.com Mon May 1 19:10:38 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k41NAc8K018888 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 19:10:38 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (bay14-f18.bay14.hotmail.com [64.4.49.18]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k41NAZ5C008187 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 19:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 1 May 2006 16:10:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 200.80.190.4 by by14fd.bay14.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 23:10:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.80.190.4] X-Originating-Email: [mariatango@hotmail.com] X-Sender: mariatango@hotmail.com From: "maria teresa lopez" To: Tango-L@mit.edu Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 23:10:34 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2006 23:10:35.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[73DBDAE0:01C66D74] X-Spam-Score: -0.692 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: [Tango-L] going to Barcelona X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 23:10:38 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 I need to know if there are any tangohouse in Barcelona, I will be there on may ll for one week. may be we can exchange a place with my tango house in Buenos Aires. Maria Teresa Lopez www.mariatango.com www.mariatango.com.ar _________________________________________________________________ Sabe más sobre la próxima generación del MSN Messenger. http://imagine-msn.com/minisites/messenger/default.aspx?locale=es-ar From rwjones52@yahoo.com Mon May 1 21:04:15 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k4214FFj007149 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 21:04:15 -0400 Received: from web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com [209.191.124.142]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k4214D0o015536 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 21:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 11243 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2006 01:04:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=l+1b9I1kF+BVEwvEUJi5mIedaYqP9unmMbv0xJrukLo3MW+TJ4ig1DqJe3LZ0DORhoXXNNpMh8IeI5xikM/ha4RRjXPggF2J1/fptyIKj/BeW+TT9JIubKKk+4D8bS7EfbB7Lvqcnh8GI1JQV1gtP+xSDKxIxDEdo5qxSzrDm/I= ; Message-ID: <20060502010413.11241.qmail@web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.55.206.161] by web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 18:04:12 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 18:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Jones To: Tango-L@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <002001c66d3f$914010e0$b68f3dc8@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 2.999 X-Spam-Level: ** (2.999) X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: rick.jones@yahoo.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 01:04:15 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 During a recent three-week trip to Buenos Aires, I was very surprised at the number of people wearing blue jeans (and even sneakers) at evening milongas. It certainly cut into any feeling of elegance that the ladies created with their wonderful evening dress and that some of the guys did with their equally elegant attire. I would imagine that the responsibility for this trend lies squarely with the organizers. I would find it hard to believe that they can't set some sort of dress code for their milongas. Simple: no blue jeans, no sneakers, no whatever. If the organizers are letting this type of dress in, then there's no real incentive for anyone to dress differently. Rick Jones Washington DC Janis Kenyon wrote: I am a regular viewer of Codigos de Milongas, a new program on Solo Tango which follows young men at home to the milonga with a commentary by men who have danced tango for many years. Carlos Matera (organizer of Sunderland) was speechless when he saw Damian wearing jeans to a milonga...Program #4 showed Gaspar (20) wearing a t-shirt, pants, and sneakers...Program #5 has Hernan (24) calling Gricel for a reservation on a Friday night. He wears a t-shirt and sneakers... From stermitz@tango.org Mon May 1 21:24:32 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k421OWVM009851 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 21:24:32 -0400 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k421OQWu005616 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 21:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k421OQOA038036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 19:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (vc1-412-1.adsl.indra.com [206.168.200.159]) (authenticated bits=0) by net.indra.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k421OLgE064150 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 19:24:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stermitz@tango.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <20060502010413.11241.qmail@web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060502010413.11241.qmail@web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tom Stermitz Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 19:24:15 -0600 To: Tango-L@mit.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 01:24:32 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 Wait a minute. Which evening milongas were you at? I went to Consagrados, Bauen, Correo Viejo, Canning, Ideal (de la turca), El Beso (late-evening). At the afternoon and evening milongas I went to, almost everyone wore at least "office casual". I know the secretaries get off work and show up at 5:30 or 6:00. The men didn't always wear jackets. But, I never saw many blue jeans. Also the age range for the women ran 40 - 60. For the men 50 - 70. Maybe you attended younger milongas? On May 1, 2006, at 7:04 PM, Rick Jones wrote: > During a recent three-week trip to Buenos Aires, I was very > surprised at the number of people wearing blue jeans (and even > sneakers) at evening milongas. It certainly cut into any feeling > of elegance that the ladies created with their wonderful evening > dress and that some of the guys did with their equally elegant attire. > > I would imagine that the responsibility for this trend lies > squarely with the organizers. I would find it hard to believe that > they can't set some sort of dress code for their milongas. Simple: > no blue jeans, no sneakers, no whatever. > > If the organizers are letting this type of dress in, then there's > no real incentive for anyone to dress differently. > > Rick Jones > Washington DC From kace@pacific.net.sg Mon May 1 23:07:05 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k42374nh025776 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 23:07:05 -0400 Received: from smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg (smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg [203.120.90.31]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k4236u2b019576 for ; Mon, 1 May 2006 23:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 22815 invoked from network); 2 May 2006 03:06:55 -0000 Received: from maxwell2.pacific.net.sg (203.120.90.192) by smtpgate1.pacific.net.sg with SMTP; 2 May 2006 03:06:54 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.200] ([218.212.98.67]) by maxwell2.pacific.net.sg with ESMTP id <20060502030654.GXYZ28656.maxwell2.pacific.net.sg@[192.168.1.200]> for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 11:06:54 +0800 Message-ID: <4456CCC7.3020108@pacific.net.sg> Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 11:06:47 +0800 From: Kace User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tango-l@mit.edu References: <20060501210455.50264.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060501210455.50264.qmail@web54713.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Social tango definition X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 03:07:05 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 As a tango instructor (not self-appointed) we are frequently asked to explain to our classes the difference between social and show tango. This is my definition: - Social tango is like fishes swimming in a stream -- you need to have a clear sense of direction and not lose your companion in a herd. Dancing close is not mandatory, but it is the most energy-efficient and relaxing way to dance in a crowded space. We teach them both open and close, but most end up preferring close-embrace. - Show tango is like fishes swimming in a static pond. Nothing stops you from expending your energy in convoluted figures in all combination of possibilities, but the price is a weakened or broken connection with your partner. Frequently these extra movements serve no communication purpose except to look aesthetically exciting to an audience. In my class we define the open embrace as providing an extra degrees of freedom of movement -- a completely loose arm is 2 degree while a firm arm open embrace is 1 degree. A liquid hold that moves between open and close adds and subtracts degree, whereas a static hold that stays in one position remains in the same degree of freedom. It is academically interesting to study the possibilities of extra degrees of freedom, and I recommend choreographers, instructors and academics to explore this to push the envelope of tango. The style of embrace have meanings in choreography terms, to represent love, confrontation, power, and control. But if the freedom to open the embrace is taken too far, you may even end up using only one hand or releasing the hold completely -- as Andres does in some of his figures -- and you have to question if it is still "tango" without the embrace. In that case, why not have solo "shines" like salsa dancers? For social dancers wishing to stay in a tango trance, close embrace is most enjoyable. But this is not a dogma. The bottom line: a learner should understand the concepts of extra degrees of freedom using looser embrace --- but if he is a good enough social dancer, he probably do not need it on the dance floor. Kace tangosingapore.com Derik Rawson wrote: > Dear Sergo: > > Your definition of social tango sounds perfectly > reasonable. The convoluted definitions of Michael and > others are not. > > --- Sergio Vandekier > wrote: > > >> People may do an exhibition in close embrace tango >> and this is Stage tango. >> > > Derik > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > --- Sergio Vandekier > wrote: > > >> I think that at this point it is important to define >> 'Social Tango'. >> >> As you know the first division of tango in Argentina >> is Salon (the one done >> socially at the salons or clubs) and Stage (the one >> performed for >> exhibitions or on stage). >> >> IMO when people gather to socialize and dance they >> are doing 'social >> dancing' irrespective of the style they are doing. >> >> So people may gather to do Salon Open embrace or >> Nuevo tango and this is >> Social dancing. >> >> People may do an exhibition in close embrace tango >> and this is Stage tango. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Sergio >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get >> it now! >> >> > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Tango-L mailing list >> Tango-L@mit.edu >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > From rawsonweb@yahoo.com Tue May 2 00:18:55 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k424IsH8006654 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 00:18:54 -0400 Received: from web54702.mail.yahoo.com (web54702.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.192]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k424IraA017529 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 00:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 89338 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2006 04:18:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FuQsj22txOhcZ8YfdEiVsAeQn6h1uLu/7JenFmsR/bAdwUNnx+EX+sL1mZN+z5niJunSqRPOFuAYLdwyrhAnM7PBuwU97Z4BQqqBiZbGc9DKh4o+9GWyfeG0d81LMczxY0CD1DdAfhAT3rO4a+FkSqD4J/Qm6nf9d43J3hdOGA8= ; Message-ID: <20060502041853.89336.qmail@web54702.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.175.89.133] by web54702.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 May 2006 21:18:53 PDT Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 21:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Derik Rawson To: Kace , tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: <4456CCC7.3020108@pacific.net.sg> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Social tango definition and the importance of the embrace X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 04:18:55 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 124 Dear Kace: Welcome to the list.... I have danced Argentine tango chest to chest with zero embrace (both hands down) and to me it is still definitely tango. I have danced the same way completely open and not touching my partner at all, and that is also definitely tango. In Argentine tango, we move together and follow each others bodies. We move into and out of each others space, right? To me, that is how the dance is lead and followed. If one is not "connected" with ones partner and feeling her presence in your space, nothing much interesting happens. The embrace, although a very cool, really has very little to do with anything. It can be whatever one wants it to be, and it can change instantly according to ones mood at the time. My opinion. Derik d.rawson@rawsonweb.com --- Kace wrote: > As a tango instructor (not self-appointed) we are > frequently asked to > explain to our classes the difference between social > and show tango. > This is my definition: > > - Social tango is like fishes swimming in a stream > -- you need to have > a clear sense of direction and not lose your > companion in a herd. > Dancing close is not mandatory, but it is the most > energy-efficient and > relaxing way to dance in a crowded space. We teach > them both open > and close, but most end up preferring close-embrace. > > - Show tango is like fishes swimming in a static > pond. Nothing stops > you from expending your energy in convoluted figures > in all combination > of possibilities, but the price is a weakened or > broken connection with > your partner. Frequently these extra movements serve > no communication > purpose except to look aesthetically exciting to an > audience. > > In my class we define the open embrace as providing > an extra degrees > of freedom of movement -- a completely loose arm is > 2 degree while a > firm arm open embrace is 1 degree. A liquid hold > that moves between > open and close adds and subtracts degree, whereas a > static hold that > stays in one position remains in the same degree of > freedom. > > It is academically interesting to study the > possibilities of extra degrees > of freedom, and I recommend choreographers, > instructors and > academics to explore this to push the envelope of > tango. The style > of embrace have meanings in choreography terms, to > represent > love, confrontation, power, and control. > > But if the freedom to open the embrace is taken too > far, you may > even end up using only one hand or releasing the > hold completely -- as > Andres does in some of his figures -- and you have > to question if it is > still "tango" without the embrace. In that case, why > not have solo > "shines" like salsa dancers? > > For social dancers wishing to stay in a tango > trance, close embrace > is most enjoyable. But this is not a dogma. > > The bottom line: a learner should understand the > concepts of extra > degrees of freedom using looser embrace --- but if > he is a good enough > social dancer, he probably do not need it on the > dance floor. > > Kace > tangosingapore.com > > > Derik Rawson wrote: > > Dear Sergo: > > > > Your definition of social tango sounds perfectly > > reasonable. The convoluted definitions of Michael > and > > others are not. > > > > --- Sergio Vandekier > > > wrote: > > > > > >> People may do an exhibition in close embrace > tango > >> and this is Stage tango. > >> > > > > Derik > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com > > > > --- Sergio Vandekier > > > wrote: > > > > > >> I think that at this point it is important to > define > >> 'Social Tango'. > >> > >> As you know the first division of tango in > Argentina > >> is Salon (the one done > >> socially at the salons or clubs) and Stage (the > one > >> performed for > >> exhibitions or on stage). > >> > >> IMO when people gather to socialize and dance > they > >> are doing 'social > >> dancing' irrespective of the style they are > doing. > >> > >> So people may gather to do Salon Open embrace or > >> Nuevo tango and this is > >> Social dancing. > >> > >> People may do an exhibition in close embrace > tango > >> and this is Stage tango. > >> > >> What do you think? > >> > >> Sergio > >> > >> > >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > >> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – > get > >> it now! > >> > >> > > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >> Tango-L mailing list > >> Tango-L@mit.edu > >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > >> > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Derik Rawson d.rawson@rawsonweb.com http://www.rawsonweb.com 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu rawsonweb@yahoo.com Europe/Asia rawsonweb@compuserve.com Paris, France __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From tango.society@gmail.com Tue May 2 00:32:03 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k424W3A6009776 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 00:32:03 -0400 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com (nproxy.gmail.com [64.233.182.189]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with ESMTP id k424W1pS020148 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 00:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n15so934703nfc for ; Mon, 01 May 2006 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=OuFgTumVF89YHuVGuzVOZt4/ntRXg1yHOVXuEAgeL28lqCwawX+aMziaq9u9XwcH3bolK/Rog05WJxaNqBUpSNBa3D23tK0Ku25Ci8Uw+K0mpTMfZkok6AVHCWxGuCkhOlSt9b42htDVnukWeSsmyv/z2IT3jDN05JcEDKgLUFU= Received: by 10.49.90.6 with SMTP id s6mr179524nfl; Mon, 01 May 2006 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.48.247.19 with HTTP; Mon, 1 May 2006 21:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 23:32:01 -0500 From: "Ron Weigel" To: "Sergio Vandekier" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by pch.mit.edu id k424W3A6009776 Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music? X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 04:32:03 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 On 5/1/06, Sergio Vandekier wrote: > > What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music? > In almost all cases, 'tango electronico' consists of the addition of some tango elements (use of bandoneon, lyrical references to 'tango', 'milonga' & 'Buenos Aires', reinterpretation of classic tango melodies) to music with rhythmic characteristics that typically classify it as 'club', 'trance', or 'house' music. The predominant rhythmic structure either lacks the pulsating walking rhythm of tango, or the tango rhythm is weaker than a considerably stronger club rhythm that is characteristic of spot dances rather than progressive dances. For this reason, very little 'tango electronico' is suitable for dancing tango. Some of this genre of music is suitable for dancing some 'night club' dances such as hustle and night club 2-step. Much of it is too slow for partner dancing in general. There are some very few exceptions: (1) Carla Pugliese (based on the CD 'La vida y la tempestad') The best example of retaining tango rhythmic characteristics and adding electronic elments that I am aware of is some of Carla Pugliese's music. In particular 'Ostinato' and 'La vida y la tempestad' and most of 'La cumparsita' have rhythmic characteristics of classic tango. The electronic elements add to the melody and do not disrupt the predominant tango rhythm. As DJ, I have used some Carla Pugliese and find that it does not significantly increase the amount of arhythmic dancing on the floor. (2) Electrocutango On the 'Felino' CD, the milongas 'El lloron' and 'Retrolonga' follow a standard milonga rhythmic. The tangos 'Felino' and 'Electroqtango' have a prominent pulsating tango rhythm, and 'Sin Piel' is not bad either. However, the electronic overlay is more prominent than used by Carla Pugliese and can be distracting for some dancers, who use the enregy contained within the strong electronic elements to project themselves across the floor at a faster pace than is warranted by the tempo of the music, resulting in increased off balance movements. Also, Electrocutango music does not generate the soft sad feelings of classic tango. It has an aggressiveness to it that is more characteristic of international ballroom tango. Nevertheless, I would still consider their music within the tango genre, because of its rhythmic characteristics. (3) Otros Aires The milongas 'Milonga sentimental' and 'Amore que se baila' have a standard milonga rhythm and are danceable as milongas. The tangos 'Percanta' and 'En direccion a mi casa' have a pulsating tango rhythm with a moderately strong electronic overlay, but are still danceable as tangos. 'Sin rumbo' has a stronger distracting pounding club rhythm, but is still danceable as a tango with some concentration on the subordinate tango rhythm. In all these Otros Aires recordings, one needs to adjust to the unidimensional electronically produced sound, which lacks the depth of acoustic instruments used in classic tango. I also notice that some dancers tend to 'bounce' more to Otros Aires than they would to classic tango and milongas, so that the quality of dancing may be compromised by using these recordings. Other than this there may be an occasional 'tango electronico' composition that has a danceable tango rhythm (e.g., Jaime Wilensky's tango 'Chocolate' and milonga 'Universo'), but generally 'tango electronico' lacks the rhythmic characteristics of classic tango and thus, rather than being considered an evolutionary trend of tango music, it is best considered an evolutionary trend within the genre of 'electronic club' music, with which it shares more in common. Thus, the use of most 'tango electronico' by DJs at milongas risks disrupting the atmosphere produced by a program of entirely classical tango music. On the other hand, it may provide a convenient bathroom or cigarette break for classically minded tango dancers. Ron From ming_mar@yahoo.com Tue May 2 06:15:06 2006 Received: from pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.83]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k42AF6AF001994 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 06:15:06 -0400 Received: from web52514.mail.yahoo.com (web52514.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.197]) by pacific-carrier-annex.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k42AF1TH019447 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 06:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 82546 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2006 10:15:00 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UhLTZ+R95i7yR2MnBYQlZRp7Z5HGTRWG4j2BC3zmcmHVANYPsjOFuqW60YUTg/DhrdtQVPS2sOiuuXnf765TYHS3JH53uGWvn5o359ePJaKEmTJu33cTDqG6alaDJ53Q2KdhrVxnI9OdTag2Q9vpHi+mYoewtgMAvDVVcJeNg+0= ; Message-ID: <20060502101500.82544.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.197.135.52] by web52514.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 02 May 2006 03:15:00 PDT Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 03:15:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ming Mar To: tango-l@mit.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.952 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Argentino Toolbar for Firefox Browser users X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 10:15:06 -0000 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 Following the announcement of the extension on this mailing list, some (presumably tango-dancing) geek checked it and says that the extension contains a rogue program called spyrem.exe. Apparently, once installed, the rogue program tells you that your computer is infected with non-existent spyware in order to goad you into buying some useless software to remove the non-existent spyware. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From christian.luethen@gmx.net Tue May 2 06:43:22 2006 Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by pch.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k42AhMaW006602 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 06:43:22 -0400 Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.de [213.165.64.20]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.9.2) with SMTP id k42AhKrO029555 for ; Tue, 2 May 2006 06:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 02 May 2006 10:43:20 -0000 Received: from tango.demon.nl (EHLO magrathea) [212.238.218.193] by mail.gmx.net (mp018) with SMTP; 02 May 2006 12:43:20 +0200 X-Authenticated: #825172 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christian_L=FCthen?=" To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 12:48:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4457552E.7789.74A4C7@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20060502101500.82544.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.21c) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango Argentino Toolbar for Firefox Browser users X-BeenThere: tango-l@mit.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6 Preceden