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<p>I'll leave the UI5 and offline/draft for the experts, but once
they press submit I don't think it's an unreasonable scenario.<br>
</p>
<p>With an instance-independent (or static) method you can have a
work item without a pre-existing object, and the triggering event
could be "CreateFromData" or "RequestDataSubmitted" or whatever
you want to name it, with all the submitted data as parameters
(whether a structure or individual fields). If the creation fails,
there will be no temporary data records other than in your
workflow/work item container (transferred from the event
container) - so no need for cleanup outside of regular workflow
monitoring.</p>
However, there will need to be error handling as mentioned by
Jocelyn, so you'll then need that UX solution to be able to receive
the previously submitted data back along with a message or list of
messages to correct the problem(s) before resubmitting - because
surely they don't want you to present the data from their
'beautiful' UX in a SAP GUI screen for error correction? Thus you
bring the challenge back to them ;-)<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 09. mai 2018 12:13, skreiv Andy
Curtis:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADngEVj=A4hqnyb_hGOdfbNsZv7u2tUJwNh7zjqGYhO7Yr_tWw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Maybe I am
doing a poor job of explaining because we do have a team of
experienced mobile people. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">We originally
said, 'when user presses 'submit' there should be 2 things
happen, the 'request' should be saved and Wf should be
triggered. They read this as 2 client side actions (1 to send
screen data to the server, the second to trigger Wf) and were
concerned what would happen if the first action succeeded and
the second failed. The answer to that is to have 1 server
side service to receive the screen data, create a database
record and trigger Wf). But the pushback came that if there
was 1 client side action to trigger Wf (server side) passing
the screen data to the Context, then Wf could create the
database record as the first step. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thats where
my karma is suffering. I believe it is 'right/correct' to
have a server side service receive the screen data, create a
'request' on a database and then trigger Wf. Replacing the
server side service to receive the screendata and trigger Wf,
I think is fundamentally wrong because I have never created a
Wf that did not have an business object/Class instance when it
started.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thoughts?</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Andy<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 10:11 AM, <span
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: ?SCP Workflow question (Dart, Jocelyn)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Dart, Jocelyn" <<a
href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>><br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a
href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:11:13 +0000<br>
Subject:
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:small;display:inline"></div>
Re: SCP Workflow question<br>
<div dir="auto">
Hi Andy
<div>Ok this sounds like the usual non workflow
developer mistake of thinking workflow is somehow
another pseudo database. With this approach if you
lose comms you have an orphaned workflow.... which
surely would be much harder to clean up than a single
database entry wherever it is held. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do they have anyone who has actually done offline
mobile scenarios before advising them? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To me - and granted I am not an expert in this - it
sounds more like what you need is a staging table in
the cloud database for the initial request. Then if
all details are received that becomes your draft
business object trigger for the workflow which then
completes the process including identifying if the
entry is a duplicate or receiving out of order or
whatever & if all is well then updating the real
backend database & then ends with cleaning up the
draft/staging entry. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That way you know if there is anything outstanding
or blocked by checking the staging table contents </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a suggestion... again really they need to
involve someone with offline mobile experience </div>
<div>Rgds</div>
<div>Jocelyn</div>
<div><br>
<div id="m_5845625890470774808AppleMailSignature">Sent
from my iPhone with many apologies for the spelling,
grammar and any other deficiencies </div>
<div><br>
On 9 May 2018, at 6:43 pm, Andy Curtis <<a
href="mailto:abcurtis@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">abcurtis@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">Thanks WUG'ers</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div style="font-size:small">I'll add some
'colour' to my scenario. We have a UI5
screen to create a 'request' this screen can
be delivered to a user on any device,
including mobile phones where comms could be
patchy, so loss of comms is a feature that
the 'techs' are concerned about. So the
proposal from them is to have a single comm
from the UI5 when the 'request' data is
entered. So, data coming from a screen on a
mobile, arrives at the server and something
needs to take it and create a 'request' in a
database. My opinion is there should be a
Service to receive the comms and create the
'request' in the database, assigning a
number to it and then triggering Wf passing
the 'request' that has been saved on a
database.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Their suggestion
is, when the data arrives at the server it
triggers Wf immediately (before the
'request' is created on the database) and
the first step in the Wf is to create the
'request' get back the 'request' nbr and
then continue through the approval process.
This would be the first time I have ever
started a Wf without an instance of the
object, (I don't think I could trigger a
Classic Wf without an object instance) and
it just does not feel right to me. Hence my
question to the community to find out if
others thought it was good practice to start
a Wf without an object instance and have Wf
create it. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div style="font-size:small">@Kjetil, in a
create vendor account process, would the
first step be a user in XK01 creating a
Vendor account? When saving the transaction
it creates a vendor record and triggers Wf
to start the process. The vendor nbr would
exist before Wf was triggered and an
instance of the vendor object would exist.
Or maybe you have a Form and you want to
start a Wf to create a vendor master </div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div style="font-size:small">@Mark, I started
to think SAP Cloud was the new R/3 and
prepared to catch a new wave, </div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Andy
Curtis<br>
</div>
</div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2018
at 12:55 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World
Wide Web, visit<br>
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http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject
or body 'help' to<br>
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You can reach the person managing the list
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject
line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. SCP Workflow question (Andy Curtis)<br>
2. Re: SCP Workflow question (Kjetil
Kilhavn)<br>
3. Re: SCP Workflow question (Mark Pyc)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Andy Curtis <<a
href="mailto:abcurtis@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">abcurtis@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a
href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:08:44 +0100<br>
Subject:
<div
style="font-size:small;display:inline"></div>
SCP Workflow question<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">WUG'ers :)
(longtime no see)</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I am
graduating to SCP Workflow and have a
question, I wonder if anyone can help
me out.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I have
always built Classic Workflows
triggered after an object has been
created in a database, or SAP always
saves the object and then sends the Wf
triggering event. I would say thats
best practice and it also fits with my
other narrative about keeping process
and application logic separate. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">In SCP it
is possible to trigger a SCP Workflow
without an Object, but is that a good
idea? The thought it to trigger SCP
Wf and have a step that calls a task
to create the object, so the Wf is
basically generic to start with, then
becomes instantiated after the first
step. Would anyone else think this is
a good idea? I don't, I think a Wf
should have an object before being
started but I am having a hard time
arguing the case, so really looking
for other informed opinion.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Anyone got
one?</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_2894788160586841754gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Kjetil Kilhavn <<a
href="mailto:list.sap-wug@vettug.no"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">list.sap-wug@vettug.no</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 22:03:13 +0200<br>
Subject: Re: SCP Workflow question<br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>What is an object? If the workflow is
"Create Vendor Account" and takes a
bunch of input parameters for the new
vendor, then why not let it start
before there is an LFA1 record in the
database? You have an object, it just
isn't complete yet, it is a draft for
a vendor record. Sort of like FIPP
objects.</p>
<p>But the way you describe it it may
also be a workflow that doesn't have a
clue what is about to happen, so any
type of object can be created etc. I
suppose it could still be a valid use
case, but it's a bit harder to
imagine. How would one for instance
identify agents for the first step if
you don't even know what is going to
be created.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_8570414137892440975moz-cite-prefix">Den
08. mai 2018 19:08, skreiv Andy
Curtis:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">WUG'ers
:) (longtime no see)</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I am
graduating to SCP Workflow and
have a question, I wonder if
anyone can help me out.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I have
always built Classic Workflows
triggered after an object has been
created in a database, or SAP
always saves the object and then
sends the Wf triggering event. I
would say thats best practice and
it also fits with my other
narrative about keeping process
and application logic separate. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">In SCP
it is possible to trigger a SCP
Workflow without an Object, but is
that a good idea? The thought it
to trigger SCP Wf and have a step
that calls a task to create the
object, so the Wf is basically
generic to start with, then
becomes instantiated after the
first step. Would anyone else
think this is a good idea? I
don't, I think a Wf should have an
object before being started but I
am having a hard time arguing the
case, so really looking for other
informed opinion.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Anyone
got one?</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_8570414137892440975gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_5845625890470774808m_8570414137892440975mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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<a class="m_5845625890470774808m_8570414137892440975moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_5845625890470774808m_8570414137892440975moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kjetil Kilhavn</pre>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Mark Pyc <<a
href="mailto:mark.pyc@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mark.pyc@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a
href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:50:14 +1000<br>
Subject: Re: SCP Workflow question<br>
<div dir="ltr">Agree with Kjetil and agree
it's a lot like a FIPP to BKPF or maybe
more so like BUS2105 to BUS2012. Thing
is LFA1 doesn't have such an obvious
'requested' phase. I've done similar
things before but I end up creating a
request application which assigns a GUID
to the request, and that's the object
that the WF operates on. Now you _could_
use the WF instance id as the request
number and capture all the data into
containers rather than custom tables
but, in non-cloud at least, that would
seem to me to be a lazy hack that would
cost you in the long run - think about
reporting and monitoring.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The cloud... hmmm don't get me
started on the cloud, or least SAPs
endeavours in that space... it might
seem easier to use the WF as the
request DB but again I still think
it's lazy. I started typing thinking I
might have a different attitude given
the cloud but I don't</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Create a "Vendor Request"
application (if you don't want to use
MDM requests and WF - not sure of
cloud availability) and then build WF
with a known instance as you always
would.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My 2p / 2c / 2 lowest units of your
desired currency.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have fun,</div>
<div>Mark</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 9 May 2018
at 06:03, Kjetil Kilhavn <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:list.sap-wug@vettug.no"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">list.sap-wug@vettug.no</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>What is an object? If the
workflow is "Create Vendor
Account" and takes a bunch of
input parameters for the new
vendor, then why not let it
start before there is an LFA1
record in the database? You have
an object, it just isn't
complete yet, it is a draft for
a vendor record. Sort of like
FIPP objects.</p>
<p>But the way you describe it it
may also be a workflow that
doesn't have a clue what is
about to happen, so any type of
object can be created etc. I
suppose it could still be a
valid use case, but it's a bit
harder to imagine. How would one
for instance identify agents for
the first step if you don't even
know what is going to be
created.<br>
</p>
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226h5"><br>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-cite-prefix">Den
08. mai 2018 19:08, skreiv
Andy Curtis:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:small">WUG'ers
:) (longtime no see)</div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small">I
am graduating to SCP
Workflow and have a
question, I wonder if
anyone can help me out.</div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small">I
have always built
Classic Workflows
triggered after an
object has been created
in a database, or SAP
always saves the object
and then sends the Wf
triggering event. I
would say thats best
practice and it also
fits with my other
narrative about keeping
process and application
logic separate. </div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small">In
SCP it is possible to
trigger a SCP Workflow
without an Object, but
is that a good idea?
The thought it to
trigger SCP Wf and have
a step that calls a task
to create the object, so
the Wf is basically
generic to start with,
then becomes
instantiated after the
first step. Would
anyone else think this
is a good idea? I
don't, I think a Wf
should have an object
before being started but
I am having a hard time
arguing the case, so
really looking for other
informed opinion.</div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small">Anyone
got one?</div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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<a class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><span class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></pre>
<span
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"></span></blockquote>
<span
class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<pre class="m_5845625890470774808m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kjetil Kilhavn</pre>
</font></span></div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
<a
href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
SAP-WUG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
<a
href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br>
<span>SAP-WUG mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a></span><br>
<span><a
href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
SAP-WUG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://mailman.mit.edu/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
SAP-WUG mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kjetil Kilhavn</pre>
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