<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body dir="auto">
Hi Andy
<div>Ok this sounds like the usual non workflow developer mistake of thinking workflow is somehow another pseudo database. With this approach if you lose comms you have an orphaned workflow.... which surely would be much harder to clean up than a single database
entry wherever it is held. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do they have anyone who has actually done offline mobile scenarios before advising them? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To me - and granted I am not an expert in this - it sounds more like what you need is a staging table in the cloud database for the initial request. Then if all details are received that becomes your draft business object trigger for the workflow which
then completes the process including identifying if the entry is a duplicate or receiving out of order or whatever & if all is well then updating the real backend database & then ends with cleaning up the draft/staging entry. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That way you know if there is anything outstanding or blocked by checking the staging table contents </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a suggestion... again really they need to involve someone with offline mobile experience </div>
<div>Rgds</div>
<div>Jocelyn</div>
<div><br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone with many apologies for the spelling, grammar and any other deficiencies </div>
<div><br>
On 9 May 2018, at 6:43 pm, Andy Curtis <<a href="mailto:abcurtis@gmail.com">abcurtis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Thanks WUG'ers</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I'll add some 'colour' to my scenario. We have a UI5 screen to create a 'request' this screen can be delivered to a user on any device, including mobile phones where comms could be patchy, so loss of comms
is a feature that the 'techs' are concerned about. So the proposal from them is to have a single comm from the UI5 when the 'request' data is entered. So, data coming from a screen on a mobile, arrives at the server and something needs to take it and create
a 'request' in a database. My opinion is there should be a Service to receive the comms and create the 'request' in the database, assigning a number to it and then triggering Wf passing the 'request' that has been saved on a database.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Their suggestion is, when the data arrives at the server it triggers Wf immediately (before the 'request' is created on the database) and the first step in the Wf is to create the 'request' get back the 'request'
nbr and then continue through the approval process. This would be the first time I have ever started a Wf without an instance of the object, (I don't think I could trigger a Classic Wf without an object instance) and it just does not feel right to me. Hence
my question to the community to find out if others thought it was good practice to start a Wf without an object instance and have Wf create it. </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">@Kjetil, in a create vendor account process, would the first step be a user in XK01 creating a Vendor account? When saving the transaction it creates a vendor record and triggers Wf to start the process.
The vendor nbr would exist before Wf was triggered and an instance of the vendor object would exist. Or maybe you have a Form and you want to start a Wf to create a vendor master </div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">@Mark, I started to think SAP Cloud was the new R/3 and prepared to catch a new wave, </div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Andy Curtis<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 12:55 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
http://mailman.mit.edu/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:sap-wug-owner@mit.edu">sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. SCP Workflow question (Andy Curtis)<br>
2. Re: SCP Workflow question (Kjetil Kilhavn)<br>
3. Re: SCP Workflow question (Mark Pyc)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Andy Curtis <<a href="mailto:abcurtis@gmail.com">abcurtis@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:08:44 +0100<br>
Subject:
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;display:inline"></div>
SCP Workflow question<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">WUG'ers :) (longtime no see)</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I am graduating to SCP Workflow and have a question, I wonder if anyone can help me out.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I have always built Classic Workflows triggered after an object has been created in a database, or SAP always saves the object and then sends the Wf triggering event. I would say thats best practice and it also fits with my other
narrative about keeping process and application logic separate. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">In SCP it is possible to trigger a SCP Workflow without an Object, but is that a good idea? The thought it to trigger SCP Wf and have a step that calls a task to create the object, so the Wf is basically generic to start with,
then becomes instantiated after the first step. Would anyone else think this is a good idea? I don't, I think a Wf should have an object before being started but I am having a hard time arguing the case, so really looking for other informed opinion.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Anyone got one?</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_2894788160586841754gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Kjetil Kilhavn <<a href="mailto:list.sap-wug@vettug.no">list.sap-wug@vettug.no</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 22:03:13 +0200<br>
Subject: Re: SCP Workflow question<br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>What is an object? If the workflow is "Create Vendor Account" and takes a bunch of input parameters for the new vendor, then why not let it start before there is an LFA1 record in the database? You have an object, it just isn't complete yet, it is a draft
for a vendor record. Sort of like FIPP objects.</p>
<p>But the way you describe it it may also be a workflow that doesn't have a clue what is about to happen, so any type of object can be created etc. I suppose it could still be a valid use case, but it's a bit harder to imagine. How would one for instance identify
agents for the first step if you don't even know what is going to be created.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_8570414137892440975moz-cite-prefix">Den 08. mai 2018 19:08, skreiv Andy Curtis:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">WUG'ers :) (longtime no see)</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I am graduating to SCP Workflow and have a question, I wonder if anyone can help me out.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I have always built Classic Workflows triggered after an object has been created in a database, or SAP always saves the object and then sends the Wf triggering event. I would say thats best practice and it also fits with my other
narrative about keeping process and application logic separate. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">In SCP it is possible to trigger a SCP Workflow without an Object, but is that a good idea? The thought it to trigger SCP Wf and have a step that calls a task to create the object, so the Wf is basically generic to start with,
then becomes instantiated after the first step. Would anyone else think this is a good idea? I don't, I think a Wf should have an object before being started but I am having a hard time arguing the case, so really looking for other informed opinion.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Anyone got one?</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_8570414137892440975gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_8570414137892440975mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
SAP-WUG mailing list
<a class="m_8570414137892440975moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu" target="_blank">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a>
<a class="m_8570414137892440975moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_8570414137892440975moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kjetil Kilhavn</pre>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Mark Pyc <<a href="mailto:mark.pyc@gmail.com">mark.pyc@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:50:14 +1000<br>
Subject: Re: SCP Workflow question<br>
<div dir="ltr">Agree with Kjetil and agree it's a lot like a FIPP to BKPF or maybe more so like BUS2105 to BUS2012. Thing is LFA1 doesn't have such an obvious 'requested' phase. I've done similar things before but I end up creating a request application which
assigns a GUID to the request, and that's the object that the WF operates on. Now you _could_ use the WF instance id as the request number and capture all the data into containers rather than custom tables but, in non-cloud at least, that would seem to me
to be a lazy hack that would cost you in the long run - think about reporting and monitoring.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The cloud... hmmm don't get me started on the cloud, or least SAPs endeavours in that space... it might seem easier to use the WF as the request DB but again I still think it's lazy. I started typing thinking I might have a different attitude given the
cloud but I don't</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Create a "Vendor Request" application (if you don't want to use MDM requests and WF - not sure of cloud availability) and then build WF with a known instance as you always would.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My 2p / 2c / 2 lowest units of your desired currency.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Have fun,</div>
<div>Mark</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 9 May 2018 at 06:03, Kjetil Kilhavn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:list.sap-wug@vettug.no" target="_blank">list.sap-wug@vettug.no</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>What is an object? If the workflow is "Create Vendor Account" and takes a bunch of input parameters for the new vendor, then why not let it start before there is an LFA1 record in the database? You have an object, it just isn't complete yet, it is a draft
for a vendor record. Sort of like FIPP objects.</p>
<p>But the way you describe it it may also be a workflow that doesn't have a clue what is about to happen, so any type of object can be created etc. I suppose it could still be a valid use case, but it's a bit harder to imagine. How would one for instance identify
agents for the first step if you don't even know what is going to be created.<br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="m_886703012242922226h5"><br>
<div class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-cite-prefix">Den 08. mai 2018 19:08, skreiv Andy Curtis:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_886703012242922226h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">WUG'ers :) (longtime no see)</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I am graduating to SCP Workflow and have a question, I wonder if anyone can help me out.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">I have always built Classic Workflows triggered after an object has been created in a database, or SAP always saves the object and then sends the Wf triggering event. I would say thats best practice and it also fits with my other
narrative about keeping process and application logic separate. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">In SCP it is possible to trigger a SCP Workflow without an Object, but is that a good idea? The thought it to trigger SCP Wf and have a step that calls a task to create the object, so the Wf is basically generic to start with,
then becomes instantiated after the first step. Would anyone else think this is a good idea? I don't, I think a Wf should have an object before being started but I am having a hard time arguing the case, so really looking for other informed opinion.</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Anyone got one?</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
Andy Curtis<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
SAP-WUG mailing list
<a class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu" target="_blank">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a>
<a class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><span class="m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
</font></span></pre>
<span class="m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span></blockquote>
<span class="m_886703012242922226HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<pre class="m_886703012242922226m_7985089771634460440moz-signature" cols="72">--
Kjetil Kilhavn</pre>
</font></span></div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
SAP-WUG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu" target="_blank">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
SAP-WUG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>SAP-WUG mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a></span><br>
<span><a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>