<div>Thanks Mike, your input came very valuable for me.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Guru </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-owner@mit.edu">sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Correlation in workflow (Mike Pokraka)<br> 2. Portal UWL problems (Oleg Mayorov)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>Message: 1<br>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 10:36:24 +0100 (BST)<br>From: "Mike Pokraka" <<a href="mailto:wug@workflowconnections.com">wug@workflowconnections.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: Correlation in workflow<br>
To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@MIT.EDU">sap-wug@MIT.EDU</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:08b5c8d2c49899d2fbca46a3d157c7e4.squirrel@g.mail.aaisp.net.uk">08b5c8d2c49899d2fbca46a3d157c7e4.squirrel@g.mail.aaisp.net.uk</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<br><br>Hi Guru,<br><br>Though any real-world input would be useful, I would not rely too much on<br>any answers you receive, because a) correlations in volume scenarios would<br>
be mostly within PI, and b) there are too many variables to make a valid<br>comparison with another system. How many of the processes will generate a<br>correlation step? How long will correlations stay open? What are the<br>
volumes of correlated events (whether matching or not)?<br><br>I think your two biggest factors are the average number of open or waiting<br>correlations at any point in time and the number of events of that type.<br>However since it'a a common scenario in PI which is designed for volume<br>
processing, I suspect your performance impact would not be significant.<br>However I would recommend settin up a few test scenarios based on your<br>process to determine how it scales up.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Mike<br><br><br>
On Tue, June 8, 2010 5:34 pm, Guru Dutt wrote:<br>> Hi All,<br>><br>> I have tested the correlation via wait events of Workflow in SAP. But I<br>> need<br>> to know the performance side of correlation and how does it internally<br>
> work.<br>><br>><br>> The workflow I am implementing is of high volume(10,000 per week). My only<br>> question is by implementing correlation will affect performance of the<br>> system.<br>><br>> Please let know your answers & suggestions so that I can give a quite a<br>
> deep<br>> thinking before implementing the same in this scenario without adverse<br>> effect.<br>><br>> Thanks in advance.<br>><br>> Best regards,<br>> Guru Dutt<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>
><br>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM, <<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br>>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
>><br>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a><br>>><br>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-owner@mit.edu">sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br>>><br>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>>> than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br>
>><br>>><br>>> Today's Topics:<br>>><br>>> 1. Re: BPM approvals (Sandy)<br>>><br>>><br>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>>> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:26:18 +1000<br>>> From: Sandy <<a href="mailto:maorriyan.santoso@gmail.com">maorriyan.santoso@gmail.com</a>><br>>> Subject: Re: BPM approvals<br>>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
>> Message-ID:<br>>> <<a href="mailto:AANLkTikl3ZbiWjFU-K_qcVO7PMl4HZGD_Y4obwLzgai3@mail.gmail.com">AANLkTikl3ZbiWjFU-K_qcVO7PMl4HZGD_Y4obwLzgai3@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>><br>>> Hi Jocelyn.<br>>> Hopefully this thread is not outdated yet.<br>>><br>>> 1. Does this mean BRM is the only solution to determine work item<br>>> recipient?<br>>> Does this mean agent determination in BPM has less flexibility and less<br>
>> SAP<br>>> template on determining agent i.e. SAP Workflow has built in to<br>>> determine<br>>> initiator's manager?<br>>><br>>> 2. If BRM is the only option to determine agent, does BRM can be used in<br>
>> escalation management where factory calendar need to be take into<br>>> account?<br>>><br>>> 3. If there is no direct connection with organisation structure/<br>>> enterprise<br>>> structure, does this mean BPM can not utilise HR evaluation path?<br>
>><br>>> 4. Can you elaborate forwarding/ substitution a little harder for<br>>> long-running scenarios?<br>>><br>>> 5. Does BPM has configuration such Task Profile where we can put some<br>>> restriction on forward and and substitution process?<br>
>><br>>> My mindset still full with SAP Workflow concept, still trying to<br>>> understand<br>>> what we can sell on BPM<br>>><br>>> Cheers.<br>>><br>>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Dart, Jocelyn <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a><br>
>> >wrote:<br>>><br>>> > Hi Karl,<br>>> ><br>>> > At the moment these are the major approaches for agent assignment in<br>>> BPM:<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>
>> > a) Use UME/Portal user groups/roles/user ids directly (actually<br>>> > groups are really useful for identifying teams of people)<br>>> ><br>>> > b) Calculate the agents using a BRM rule (e.g. using a decision<br>
>> > table) and return as a (list of ) UME/Portal user group/role/user<br>>> id(s)<br>>> ><br>>> > c) Call a web service to calculate the agents and return as a<br>>> (list<br>
>> > of) UME/Portal user group/role/user id(s)<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > There are mapping functions pre-provided to e.g. convert a regular<br>>> unique<br>>> > user id to a UME/Portal user id equivalent.<br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > There?s no direction connection to the backend org chart? not a big<br>>> deal<br>>> > for finding the original agents, but means you need to think about<br>
>> > forwarding/substitution a little harder for long-running scenarios.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Hope that helps.<br>>> ><br>>> > Regards,<br>>> ><br>
>> > Jocelyn<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > *From:* <a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] *On<br>
>> > Behalf Of *Karl Nietz<br>>> > *Sent:* Friday, 7 May 2010 4:49 PM<br>>> ><br>>> > *To:* <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>>> > *Subject:* BPM approvals<br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Hi,<br>>> ><br>>> > Further to Jocelyn's response below, is there any documentation or a<br>>> blog<br>>> > that explains how BPM actually supplants workflow for simple<br>
>> processess<br>>> such<br>>> > as PO approval, as indicated? I've checked the ES simple sample<br>>> > applications and the purchase requisition approval example seems to<br>>> gloss<br>
>> > over the issue, or at least appears to be using an underlying workflow<br>>> > template for steps such as agent assignment. Or is this the whole<br>>> thrust<br>>> of<br>>> > the BPM/workflow relationship? A chap called Kenichi has a 1hour<br>
>> podcast<br>>> on<br>>> > SDN but the screens are unreadable. Anything to get me started would<br>>> be<br>>> > helpful.<br>>> ><br>>> > Karl<br>>> ><br>>> > ----- Forwarded by Karl Nietz/AUS/CSC on 06/05/2010 01:49 PM -----<br>
>> ><br>>> > From:<br>>> ><br>>> > "Dart, Jocelyn" <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>><br>>> ><br>>> > To:<br>>> ><br>
>> > "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>>> ><br>>> > Date:<br>>> ><br>>> > 06/05/2010 01:18 PM<br>>> ><br>
>> > Subject:<br>>> ><br>>> > RE: This Group<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > ------------------------------<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>
>> > Hi Mike,<br>>> > Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm Product<br>>> Lead<br>>> > for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.<br>>> ><br>>> > I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as<br>
>> > complementary. Mainly due to existing business content and solution<br>>> > maturity issues. Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime<br>>> soon.<br>>> > It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new<br>
>> site<br>>> > that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would<br>>> previously<br>>> > have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided<br>>> current<br>>> > limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at some<br>
>> sites.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the same.<br>>> > We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this forum<br>
>> is:<br>>> as<br>>> > BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well or<br>>> just<br>>> > stick with traditional workflow?<br>>> ><br>>> > I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can<br>
>> confirm<br>>> > generally that we are expecting some better integration options<br>>> between<br>>> > workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend and NW BPM<br>>> > platforms most likely around business event management and calling of<br>
>> > ABAP-based applications. We also expect some sort of import for 7.3<br>>> > although I don't expect we will be translating from workflow to BPM or<br>>> vice<br>>> > versa - more likely import of a model from business process modelling<br>
>> > applications. I don't expect workflow to be further developed -<br>>> although<br>>> I<br>>> > agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better cross<br>>> communication<br>
>> > between business and IT.<br>>> ><br>>> > If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what<br>>> information<br>>> > I can. There are trial versions available on SDN if you want to have<br>
>> a<br>>> play<br>>> > with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple Sample Applications on<br>>> the<br>>> > ESWorkplace site.<br>>> ><br>>> > Regards,<br>>> > Jocelyn<br>
>> ><br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > SAP-WUG mailing list<br>>> > <a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>>> > <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>>> URL:<br>>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/sap-wug/attachments/20100608/591d4c3f/attachment-0001.htm" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/sap-wug/attachments/20100608/591d4c3f/attachment-0001.htm</a><br>
>><br>>> ------------------------------<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> SAP-WUG mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>>><br>>><br>>> End of SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 67, Issue 23<br>>> ***************************************<br>
>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Regards,<br>> Guru Dutt<br>> Tel : +919748445814<br>> Email : <a href="mailto:gurudutt.sap@gmail.com">gurudutt.sap@gmail.com</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> SAP-WUG mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:12:37 +0400<br>From: Oleg Mayorov <<a href="mailto:oleg.mayorov@gmail.com">oleg.mayorov@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Portal UWL problems<br>
To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:AANLkTilNwPd37XUHEuBN06jDREzDSvCYwMet0Ln8oErZ@mail.gmail.com">AANLkTilNwPd37XUHEuBN06jDREzDSvCYwMet0Ln8oErZ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>Hi all,<br><br>I have some problems with my workflow scenario in UWL.<br>I have a dilog step ( user decision type), wich i need to display in UWL. I<br>configured xml file,<br>
and everithing ok, the step is visible in uwl, and i launch my webdynpro<br>application when select task.<br><br>1)When i launch WDapplication, it's opening in new window ( or new browser<br>tab), then i approve or reject workitem<br>
from WDapplication, and close tab or window, but completed task still in<br>UWL, and if somebody try to complete it again, the error occurs (and it's<br>normally).<br> My question is - can i refresh uwl programmatically from WDynpro, when i<br>
approve or reject task inside of it?<br><br>2) In xml i configured CustomAttribute for item type, i get it from WF<br>container:<br><CustomAttributes><br> <CustomAttributeSource id="WEBFLOW_CONTAINER"<br>
objectIdHolder="externalId" objectType="WebflowContainer"<br>cacheValidity="session"><br> <Attribute name="ORGUNIT_TEXT" type="string"<br>displayName="ORGUNIT_TEXT"/><br>
</CustomAttributeSource><br> </CustomAttributes><br>Then I declare my own view in xml, and add this attribute there:<br><br> <DisplayAttributes><br> <DisplayAttribute name="ORGUNIT_TEXT" type="string" width="" sortable="yes"<br>
format="default" hAlign="CENTER" vAlign="TOP" maxTextWidth="0"<br>headerVisible="yes"><br> <Descriptions default=""><br> <ShortDescriptions><br>
<Description Language="en" Description="From"/><br> <Description Language="ru"<br>Description="&#1047;&#1072;&#1082;&#1072;&#1079;&#1095;&#1080;&#1082;"/><br>
</ShortDescriptions><br><br> then i set this sub-view is default for uwl iview. its working, but when i<br>receive this task, the<br>custom attribute in UWL is empty, and it fills only when i refresh tasklist.<br>
is it normal, or i have miss something?<br><br>Thanks in advance!<br><br><br>Regards,<br>Mayorov Oleg.<br><br>2010/6/9 <<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>>:<br>> Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br>
> <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>><br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a><br>><br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-owner@mit.edu">sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br>><br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br>
><br>><br>> Today's Topics:<br>><br>> 1. Correlation in workflow (Guru Dutt)<br>> 2. RE: BPM approvals (Dart, Jocelyn)<br>><br>><br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 22:04:46 +0530<br>> From: Guru Dutt <<a href="mailto:gurudutt.sap@gmail.com">gurudutt.sap@gmail.com</a>><br>> Subject: Correlation in workflow<br>> To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
> Message-ID:<br>> <<a href="mailto:AANLkTinMBB2no1lYwQ8Er0Ve4TV-CvXXYgVRnioGTE22@mail.gmail.com">AANLkTinMBB2no1lYwQ8Er0Ve4TV-CvXXYgVRnioGTE22@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
><br>> Hi All,<br>><br>> I have tested the correlation via wait events of Workflow in SAP. But I<br>need<br>> to know the performance side of correlation and how does it internally<br>work.<br>><br>><br>
> The workflow I am implementing is of high volume(10,000 per week). My only<br>> question is by implementing correlation will affect performance of the<br>> system.<br>><br>> Please let know your answers & suggestions so that I can give a quite a<br>
deep<br>> thinking before implementing the same in this scenario without adverse<br>> effect.<br>><br>> Thanks in advance.<br>><br>> Best regards,<br>> Guru Dutt<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM, <<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br>>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>
>><br>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a><br>>><br>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> <a href="mailto:sap-wug-owner@mit.edu">sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br>>><br>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>>> than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br>
>><br>>><br>>> Today's Topics:<br>>><br>>> 1. Re: BPM approvals (Sandy)<br>>><br>>><br>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>><br>
>> Message: 1<br>>> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:26:18 +1000<br>>> From: Sandy <<a href="mailto:maorriyan.santoso@gmail.com">maorriyan.santoso@gmail.com</a>><br>>> Subject: Re: BPM approvals<br>>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
>> Message-ID:<br>>> <<a href="mailto:AANLkTikl3ZbiWjFU-K_qcVO7PMl4HZGD_Y4obwLzgai3@mail.gmail.com">AANLkTikl3ZbiWjFU-K_qcVO7PMl4HZGD_Y4obwLzgai3@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>><br>>> Hi Jocelyn.<br>>> Hopefully this thread is not outdated yet.<br>>><br>>> 1. Does this mean BRM is the only solution to determine work item<br>>> recipient?<br>>> Does this mean agent determination in BPM has less flexibility and less<br>
SAP<br>>> template on determining agent i.e. SAP Workflow has built in to determine<br>>> initiator's manager?<br>>><br>>> 2. If BRM is the only option to determine agent, does BRM can be used in<br>
>> escalation management where factory calendar need to be take into<br>account?<br>>><br>>> 3. If there is no direct connection with organisation structure/<br>enterprise<br>>> structure, does this mean BPM can not utilise HR evaluation path?<br>
>><br>>> 4. Can you elaborate forwarding/ substitution a little harder for<br>>> long-running scenarios?<br>>><br>>> 5. Does BPM has configuration such Task Profile where we can put some<br>>> restriction on forward and and substitution process?<br>
>><br>>> My mindset still full with SAP Workflow concept, still trying to<br>understand<br>>> what we can sell on BPM<br>>><br>>> Cheers.<br>>><br>>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Dart, Jocelyn <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a><br>
>> >wrote:<br>>><br>>> > Hi Karl,<br>>> ><br>>> > At the moment these are the major approaches for agent assignment in<br>BPM:<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>
>> > a) Use UME/Portal user groups/roles/user ids directly (actually<br>>> > groups are really useful for identifying teams of people)<br>>> ><br>>> > b) Calculate the agents using a BRM rule (e.g. using a decision<br>
>> > table) and return as a (list of ) UME/Portal user group/role/user id(s)<br>>> ><br>>> > c) Call a web service to calculate the agents and return as a<br>(list<br>>> > of) UME/Portal user group/role/user id(s)<br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > There are mapping functions pre-provided to e.g. convert a regular<br>unique<br>>> > user id to a UME/Portal user id equivalent.<br>>> ><br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > There?s no direction connection to the backend org chart? not a big<br>deal<br>>> > for finding the original agents, but means you need to think about<br>>> > forwarding/substitution a little harder for long-running scenarios.<br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Hope that helps.<br>>> ><br>>> > Regards,<br>>> ><br>>> > Jocelyn<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>
>> > *From:* <a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] *On<br>>> > Behalf Of *Karl Nietz<br>>> > *Sent:* Friday, 7 May 2010 4:49 PM<br>
>> ><br>>> > *To:* <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>>> > *Subject:* BPM approvals<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Hi,<br>
>> ><br>>> > Further to Jocelyn's response below, is there any documentation or a<br>blog<br>>> > that explains how BPM actually supplants workflow for simple processess<br>>> such<br>
>> > as PO approval, as indicated? I've checked the ES simple sample<br>>> > applications and the purchase requisition approval example seems to<br>gloss<br>>> > over the issue, or at least appears to be using an underlying workflow<br>
>> > template for steps such as agent assignment. Or is this the whole<br>thrust<br>>> of<br>>> > the BPM/workflow relationship? A chap called Kenichi has a 1hour<br>podcast<br>>> on<br>>> > SDN but the screens are unreadable. Anything to get me started would<br>
be<br>>> > helpful.<br>>> ><br>>> > Karl<br>>> ><br>>> > ----- Forwarded by Karl Nietz/AUS/CSC on 06/05/2010 01:49 PM -----<br>>> ><br>>> > From:<br>>> ><br>
>> > "Dart, Jocelyn" <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>><br>>> ><br>>> > To:<br>>> ><br>>> > "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>
>> ><br>>> > Date:<br>>> ><br>>> > 06/05/2010 01:18 PM<br>>> ><br>>> > Subject:<br>>> ><br>>> > RE: This Group<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > ------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > Hi Mike,<br>>> > Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm Product<br>>> Lead<br>>> > for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.<br>
>> ><br>>> > I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as<br>>> > complementary. Mainly due to existing business content and solution<br>>> > maturity issues. Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime<br>
soon.<br>>> > It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new site<br>>> > that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would<br>previously<br>>> > have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided current<br>
>> > limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at some<br>>> sites.<br>>> ><br>>> ><br>>> > A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the same.<br>
>> > We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this forum<br>is:<br>>> as<br>>> > BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well or just<br>>> > stick with traditional workflow?<br>
>> ><br>>> > I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can<br>>> confirm<br>>> > generally that we are expecting some better integration options between<br>>> > workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend and NW BPM<br>
>> > platforms most likely around business event management and calling of<br>>> > ABAP-based applications. We also expect some sort of import for 7.3<br>>> > although I don't expect we will be translating from workflow to BPM or<br>
>> vice<br>>> > versa - more likely import of a model from business process modelling<br>>> > applications. I don't expect workflow to be further developed -<br>although<br>>> I<br>>> > agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better cross<br>
communication<br>>> > between business and IT.<br>>> ><br>>> > If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what<br>>> information<br>>> > I can. There are trial versions available on SDN if you want to have a<br>
>> play<br>>> > with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple Sample Applications on the<br>>> > ESWorkplace site.<br>>> ><br>>> > Regards,<br>>> > Jocelyn<br>>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>>> > SAP-WUG mailing list<br>>> > <a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><br>>> > <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br>
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>><br>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Regards,<br>> Guru Dutt<br>> Tel : +919748445814<br>> Email : <a href="mailto:gurudutt.sap@gmail.com">gurudutt.sap@gmail.com</a><br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
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><br>> ------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 2<br>> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 01:41:16 +0200<br>> From: "Dart, Jocelyn" <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>><br>
> Subject: RE: BPM approvals<br>> To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>> Message-ID:<br>><br> <8C507B5E0BA5114E933C3C6E2E9729E00665C9B9DE@DEWDFECCR01.wdf.sap.corp><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>><br>> Hi Sandy,<br>><br>><br>> 1. No there are 3 options as I listed below. A web service or<br>Enterprise Service (delivered or custom) is the most powerful particularly<br>
if you need to access the organizational structure sitting in a backend<br>system.<br>><br>> 2. Again the factory calendar sits in the backend system so this<br>would need an Enterprise Service. Or if you just want to knock out weekends<br>
there are Java utilities that can help with that that could be called use<br>BRM or using an EJB module.<br>><br>> 3. Use an enterprise service.<br>><br>> 4. Not sure what you are looking for here. Forwarding is called<br>
"Delegate" in BPM and there is a button for this in the task header when you<br>launch a BPM task.<br>><br>> 5. Task Profile was never a very effective concept in SAP Business<br>Workflow as it tends to be counter productive as soon as you want to create<br>
substitutes for combinations of tasks.<br>><br>><br>> Regards,<br>> Jocelyn<br>><br>> From: <a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] On Behalf<br>
Of Sandy<br>> Sent: Tuesday, 8 June 2010 10:26 AM<br>> To: SAP Workflow Users' Group<br>> Subject: Re: BPM approvals<br>><br>> Hi Jocelyn.<br>> Hopefully this thread is not outdated yet.<br>><br>> 1. Does this mean BRM is the only solution to determine work item<br>
recipient? Does this mean agent determination in BPM has less flexibility<br>and less SAP template on determining agent i.e. SAP Workflow has built in to<br>determine initiator's manager?<br>><br>> 2. If BRM is the only option to determine agent, does BRM can be used in<br>
escalation management where factory calendar need to be take into account?<br>><br>> 3. If there is no direct connection with organisation structure/<br>enterprise structure, does this mean BPM can not utilise HR evaluation path?<br>
><br>> 4. Can you elaborate forwarding/ substitution a little harder for<br>long-running scenarios?<br>><br>> 5. Does BPM has configuration such Task Profile where we can put some<br>restriction on forward and and substitution process?<br>
><br>> My mindset still full with SAP Workflow concept, still trying to<br>understand what we can sell on BPM<br>><br>> Cheers.<br>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Dart, Jocelyn <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>>> wrote:<br>> Hi Karl,<br>> At the moment these are the major approaches for agent assignment in BPM:<br>><br>><br>> a) Use UME/Portal user groups/roles/user ids directly (actually<br>
groups are really useful for identifying teams of people)<br>><br>> b) Calculate the agents using a BRM rule (e.g. using a decision<br>table) and return as a (list of ) UME/Portal user group/role/user id(s)<br>
><br>> c) Call a web service to calculate the agents and return as a (list<br>of) UME/Portal user group/role/user id(s)<br>><br>><br>> There are mapping functions pre-provided to e.g. convert a regular unique<br>
user id to a UME/Portal user id equivalent.<br>><br>> There's no direction connection to the backend org chart... not a big deal<br>for finding the original agents, but means you need to think about<br>forwarding/substitution a little harder for long-running scenarios.<br>
><br>> Hope that helps.<br>> Regards,<br>> Jocelyn<br>><br>> From: <a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>> [mailto:<br>
<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>>] On Behalf Of Karl<br>Nietz<br>> Sent: Friday, 7 May 2010 4:49 PM<br>
><br>> To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>> Subject: BPM approvals<br>><br>><br>> Hi,<br>><br>> Further to Jocelyn's response below, is there any documentation or a blog<br>
that explains how BPM actually supplants workflow for simple processess such<br>as PO approval, as indicated? I've checked the ES simple sample<br>applications and the purchase requisition approval example seems to gloss<br>
over the issue, or at least appears to be using an underlying workflow<br>template for steps such as agent assignment. Or is this the whole thrust of<br>the BPM/workflow relationship? A chap called Kenichi has a 1hour podcast on<br>
SDN but the screens are unreadable. Anything to get me started would be<br>helpful.<br>><br>> Karl<br>><br>> ----- Forwarded by Karl Nietz/AUS/CSC on 06/05/2010 01:49 PM -----<br>> From:<br>><br>> "Dart, Jocelyn" <<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jocelyn.dart@sap.com">jocelyn.dart@sap.com</a>>><br>
><br>> To:<br>><br>> "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>>><br>><br>> Date:<br>
><br>> 06/05/2010 01:18 PM<br>><br>> Subject:<br>><br>> RE: This Group<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ________________________________<br>><br>><br>><br>> Hi Mike,<br>> Just adding the SAP employee perspective... and by the way I'm Product<br>
Lead for NW BPM in ANZ Field Services this year.<br>><br>> I agree currently NW BPM and Workflow should be considered as<br>complementary. Mainly due to existing business content and solution<br>maturity issues. Also yes Workflow will not be going away anytime soon.<br>
> It is however possible to use NW BPM instead of Workflow for a new site<br>that does not use workflow at all for scenarios that we would previously<br>have done in workflow (e.g. purchase order approval) - provided current<br>
limitations/restrictions are understood and this is happening at some sites.<br>><br>> A lot of the concepts and issues around process handling are the same.<br>> We currently have a BPM forum in SDN, so the question for this forum is:<br>
as BPM usage grows do you want to start covering that area as well or just<br>stick with traditional workflow?<br>><br>> I can't give any official details on future releases yet but I can confirm<br>generally that we are expecting some better integration options between<br>
workflow and NW BPM when we get to 7.3 on both the backend and NW BPM<br>platforms most likely around business event management and calling of<br>ABAP-based applications. We also expect some sort of import for 7.3<br>although I don't expect we will be translating from workflow to BPM or vice<br>
versa - more likely import of a model from business process modelling<br>applications. I don't expect workflow to be further developed - although I<br>agree BPMN is easier to work with and enables better cross communication<br>
between business and IT.<br>><br>> If anyone has any specific questions I'm happy to provide what information<br>I can. There are trial versions available on SDN if you want to have a play<br>with NW BPM, or try out the pre-built Simple Sample Applications on the<br>
ESWorkplace site.<br>><br>> Regards,<br>> Jocelyn<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> SAP-WUG mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:SAP-WUG@mit.edu">SAP-WUG@mit.edu</a>><br>
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<br><br>End of SAP-WUG Digest, Vol 67, Issue 25<br>***************************************<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Regards,<br>Guru Dutt<br>Tel : +919748445814<br>Email : <a href="mailto:gurudutt.sap@gmail.com">gurudutt.sap@gmail.com</a><br>