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<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Thanks
Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I'm still
unclear on a fundamental point:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009>"...although we did have to perform a few
surgical procedures on a few definitions to resolve the odd bug here and there.
And for the record we did NOT kill all of our active instances at all.
"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>These two
statements appear to be mutually exclusive (unless I am *really* missing
something).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><U>A typical
scenario</U></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* We
have some WF_1 instances running version_1 on a 4.6c PROD
machine</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* We take a
copy of prod (for test purposes)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* We test
these running instances of WF_1 and find a bug... lets say, in the
bindings.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* We make a
fix to resolve this issue in our ECC6 landscape. WF_1 has been reactivated and a
transport created.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>*
...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* Some time
later, we finally go live. The production environment is upgraded and the 'fix'
transports are uploaded.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>* The active
instances of WF_1 at version_1 (which started just prior to the upgrade)
will run into the bug. Any new instances will now start version_2, and hence be
bug-free (hopefully!).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Where did the
surgical procedures take place such that active instances were able to continue
after the upgrade? In the 4.6c environment, in advance of the
upgrade?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Thanks
again</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=868155315-09122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu
[mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mike
Gambier<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday 09 December 2009 14:30<BR><B>To:</B>
sap-wug@mit.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Workflow Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC
6)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi Andy,<BR> <BR>I'm glad you found the thread useful
:)<BR> <BR>Several months on from the upgrade and I'm pleased to say we've
made the transition to an ECC 6 platform without too much fallout, so in
the immortal words on the HG2G book "Don't Panic!". <BR> <BR>Nothing went
drastically wrong, although we did have to perform a few surgical procedures on
a few definitions to resolve the odd bug here and there. And for the record we
did NOT kill all of our active instances at all. Instead we had millions of them
waking up and playing with the new Workflow engine code reasonable natively. The
only ones that had problems 'wakng up' were typically ones that were trying to
invoke standard SAP Functions that had been zapped in during the upgrade, e.g.
SWW_BI_EXECUTE_S_NEW.<BR> <BR>Probably the best thing you can do is scan
through <STRONG>OSS Note 1068627</STRONG> and prepare for some thorough testing
prior to the big day.<BR> <BR>Provided you don't intend to import Workflow
definition changes from a 4.6c (or earlier) system into an ECC 6 one <U>on a
continuous basis</U>, as we did, you should find your definitions probably only
need to be looked at a couple of times before they bed down. You might want to
create 'new' versions in your development environments just to be sure you can
differentiate between new instances and old ones but it wasn't actually
necessary in most cases. Just good practice really.<BR> <BR>Perhaps the
biggest concern we had (and continue to have) is the use of the XML container
and the persistence profile at our volumes. Simply put, we have not switched to
the new tables at all. Mostly because we rely heavily on being able to 'find'
objects in Workflow containers for exception and monitoring processes and so
need stuff to still be in SWW_CONTOB. All of which means we have religiously set
our Persistence Profile to the 'Structured' setting which forces the code to use
the 'old' container tables.<BR> <BR>Having said that our PI system is
merrily using ccBPM stuff (essentially that means Workflow) and is using
the XML Container tables, albeit at significantly lower
volumes.<BR><BR>Pretty soon we'll complete the holy trinity and have Workflows
running in our new SAP CRM 7.0 system too. Which will mean WF-BATCH whizzing
along in 3 different SAP systems and 3 different ABAP codestacks all at the same
time. Oh joy... :)<BR> <BR>Regards,<BR> <BR>Mike GT<BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Subject: RE: Workflow Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC 6)<BR>Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009
05:56:13 -0700<BR>From: andy.m.catherall@cadbury.com<BR>To:
sap-wug@mit.edu<BR><BR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi
all</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Apologies
for resurrecting an old thread... I'm working my way through all the
upgrade-lesson posts, as we are now finally moving from 4.6c to ECC6. I too have
recognised this "Do I *really* have to end all my workflow
instances/business processes!?!" dilemma, and am trying to understand the
subtle<SPAN class=ecx562264707-09122009>ties</SPAN> behind it. This thread
seemed a very pertinent place to ask my question<SPAN
class=ecx562264707-09122009>s</SPAN>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>I really appreciate all the
lessons which have been put on this forum with respect to WF upgrades... from
this, I get the strong impression that there may be a multitude of bugs, issues
and associated corrections to workflow definitions, bindings, the 'block
structure' etc, in support of ECC6. I am witnessing a number of these issues in
our test environment, and they are impacted both in-flight instances & new
instances.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>Many of
these fixes will result in new versions of the workflow design: So, for example,
if I identify & fix a binding issue in my ECC6 test environment, I will
have to re-activate the workflow and promote the change into production at
cut-over. This instantly means that any workflows might be in-progress during
the cut-over weekend will be not be 'valid' in the new environment, because they
will not be running the corrected version. Further, we may have to change an
object or method such that old versions of the workflow cannot successfully call
it... Again, in-flight workflow instances are the living-dead; we know they will
not continue after the upgrade.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>That all
made sense to me and my little understanding of the universe... and I can
foresee having to forewarn the business of this. They will by very impressed,
I'm sure!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>However,
there are hints in th<SPAN class=ecx968284307-09122009>is thread - and
other similar</SPAN> <SPAN class=ecx968284307-09122009>ones - </SPAN>of
people somehow managing to cajole their workflow instances into continuing
across the upgrade boundary...</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>So, my
question<SPAN class=ecx968284307-09122009>s</SPAN>:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff>Where <SPAN class=ecx968284307-09122009>are </SPAN>all the
fixes made such that 'old' versions of the workflows were still functional
even after the upgrade?<SPAN class=ecx968284307-09122009> Can they all be made
in the 4.6c system, in advance of the upgrade?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx968284307-09122009>How are all the fixes made? If they cannot all
be made in the 4.6c environment (e.g. the corrected block-structure issue<SPAN
class=ecx562264707-09122009> only manifests in ECC6</SPAN>), how are new
versions avoided?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx968284307-09122009></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=ecx156511519-08122009>Many
thanks for this information.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=ecx156511519-08122009>Andy</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=ecxOutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu
[mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Mike
Gambier<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday 31 July 2008 11:59<BR><B>To:</B> SAP Workflow
Users' Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Workflow Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC
6)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Hi,<BR> <BR>Just a follow-up on my earlier post. Feel free to
ignore if you're not bothered about upgrading from 4.x to
700+.<BR> <BR>After a welcome visit from the SAP Gods of Workflow
(Ralf Goetzinger and Peter Amrhein) we now have a couple of freshly issued OSS
Notes to help us along with our quest:<BR> <BR>1. 1234971 - Workflow
Builder: Changing the ParForEach expression syntax (essentially tweaks the SAP
Upgrade FM SWD_UPGRADE_3XX_TO_4XX) which should fix our Multiline binding
issues. Yay :)<BR> <BR>2. 1228836 - Compatibility of conditions with
date/time constants (provides an alternative binding solution for active
instances of 'old' definitions at runtime). Does not actually fix the WF
Definition and add the new required {TYPE=...} syntax, but could be a life-saver
during an upgrade if dates and time bindings are used a lot. Also
provides a rather useful ABAP Report utility to scrutinise your WF
Definitions and sniff out date/time bindings (RSWDCLRBUF) which, if you copy and
clone, you can adjust to examine other binding types as well
:)<BR> <BR>Anybody else going through an upgrade should find these two
notes particularly useful.<BR> <BR>These can also be found attached to the
composite Upgrade Note 1068627 which is starting to read a bit like a
bible...<BR> <BR>Ralf and Peter, if you're reading this, thanks
again!<BR> <BR>Regards,<BR> <BR>Mike GT <BR><BR>
<HR>
<BR>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:09:04 +1000<BR>From:
paul.batey@presenceofit.com.au<BR>To: sap-wug@mit.edu<BR>Subject: Re: Workflow
Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC 6)<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>Hi Mike,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A client of mine just went from 46B to ECC6, and we found the following
workflow problems:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) Every workflow had to have a block correction done in workflow
builder (this may fix your par for each error). Run SWU7 and if you get
loads of invalid node type errors, a block correction will fix it.</DIV>
<DIV>2) Old FORMHTML.PROCESS steps short dumped, so we replaced them with the
shiny new form step.</DIV>
<DIV>3) Workflow versions were completely butchered when transported from the
first upgraded box to the next in the sequence. This was fixed by running
FM SWD_WFD_REPLICATE_FROM_9999 and putting the WSXXXXXXXX number into the
IM_TASK field.</DIV>
<DIV>4) We used customised versions of RSWUWFML to send email notifications of
workitems. This and any other custom program that put entries into the
SOST queue (email, fax etc) did not properly commit (if memory serves me an
SO_OFFICE_SEND exception 1 error in SOST). A simple explicit COMMIT WORK
statement at the appropriate place in each program sorted that one out.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Apart from that, there were minimal issues with workflows starting before
the upgrade and finishing afterwards (unless they hit the short dumping form
step)<BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=ecxEC_gmail_quote>On 6/18/08, <B
class=ecxEC_gmail_sendername>Mike Gambier</B> <<A
href="mailto:madgambler@hotmail.com">madgambler@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=ecxEC_gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV>Gijs,<BR> <BR>We will have millions of active instances running when
we bring the system down to upgrade it. There's no way we will be able to shut
them down and restart, despite the SAP white paper suggesting that we really
should. We have about 100 WF definitions to check...<BR> <BR>Consequently
we're having to test how well they perform in an upgraded environment before
we do it for real. Which means testing lots of areas: triggering events event
queued or otherwise & binding (which works differently in ECC 6),
deadlines (different again in ECC 6), event listeners (which are shifted to a
completely different table), complex alternate bindings, dialog work items
being executed & terminating events, forks, loops, dynamic steps and, of
course, general tRFC/ARFCSSTATE/feedback errors.<BR><BR>Whilst it's always
nice to see new OO stuff coming through as part of the upgrade, the new
versions of the Workflow service jobs are proving to be a bit hard to predict
in how they do things. So we're waiting to see how they cope at volume
too.<BR> <BR>By the time we go live we'll have gone through several full
blown upgrade simulations. All of which means a lot of effort. Hence the
pain...<BR> <BR>That and 4 High Priority OSS Messages already and you can
see where I'm coming from. Still, it's educational and quite fun
to dig around in the new stuff :)<BR> <BR>MGT<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A href="mailto:gijs@houtzagers.com">gijs@houtzagers.com</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</A><BR>Subject: RE: Workflow
Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC 6)<BR>Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:46:25 +0200
<DIV><SPAN class=ecxEC_e id=ecxEC_q_11a9ac9a377cf684_1><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi
Mike,</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Could you elaborate
on the painful stuff you were confronted by?</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Gijs
Houtzagers</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT><BR><I><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Principal
Consultant</SPAN></FONT></I><BR><B><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></B><BR><B><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kirkman</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Company
B.V.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"></SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial color=navy><SPAN lang=NL
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Amsterdamsestraatweg
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</SPAN></FONT></DIV><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</A> [mailto:<A
href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Mike Gambier<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> dinsdag 17 juni 2008
17:12<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> SAP Workflow
Users' Group<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Workflow Upgrade issues (4.6c to ECC 6)</SPAN></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><BR>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Hi,<BR> <BR>We're
currently struggling through a rather painful upgrade process from 4.6c to
ECC 6 and we've hit a few Workflow mines.<BR> <BR>Despite several high
priority OSS Messages the end result from SAP so far as been a fairly poor
acknowledgement of issues that need to be addressed manually, culminating in
OSS Note 1175535.<BR><BR>Basically we have 4 known faults at the
moment. Two relating to changes not coming across from 4.6c into ECC 6
based around Workflow Container Elements and Event Linkages, which I can
quite understand as the target tables ahve shifted in ECC 6. But the
other two point to problems in SAP's 'mapping' process where they
convert 4.6c (or older) definitions into ECC 6 syntax (Kernel
700+).<BR> <BR>These issues are:<BR> <BR>1. Multiline Table
handling - to use these properly in loops and dynamic steps it seems you now
have to use a new &WF_PARFOREACH_INDEX& element that only becomes
available after 4.6c<BR> <BR>They did suggest trying a dodgy binding
switch as implemented by OSS Message 1083317, which mostly works for
active instances but only as long as the 'Change Release' value on the WF
version remains equal to or lower than '46C'. Not all that useful if the
instances are on the current active version and that definition is then
activated in the ECC 6 environment. But that doesn't actually fix the
definition syntax going forward anyway.<BR> <BR>2. Condition binding
after 4.6c introduces a {TYPE=...} additional statement in SWDSCONDEF so
that, for example, a hard-coded string like '31.12.9999' can be
converted into a date variable at runtime to compare against an object date
property. Prior to 4.6c this statement did not exist. Now it is required or
else the binding is considered to be erroneous and a syntax error will
result.<BR> <BR>Has anyone esle come across upgrade-related issues
other than these?<BR> <BR>Regards,<BR> <BR>Mike
GT<BR> </SPAN></FONT></P>
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