<div>Sue</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks for the response and thoughts.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The WF Admin person is a trusted individual and in fact is responsible for most of the master data, so as you say, if they really wanted to, they could approve POs one way or another.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I will pursue the idea of letting the WF Item error; thanks for the tip.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Gerald<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 16/01/2008, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a></b> <<a href="mailto:sap-wug-request@mit.edu">sap-wug-request@mit.edu</a>> wrote:
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style="DIRECTION: ltr">Send SAP-WUG mailing list submissions to<br> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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sap-wug-owner@mit.edu</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of SAP-WUG digest..."<br> </div><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Workflow administrator (Gerald Pecover)
<br> 2. RE: Workflow administrator (Keohan, Susan)<br> 3. RE: Resource planning (Srinivasan Ramanan)<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Gerald Pecover" <<a href="mailto:pecover@gmail.com">
pecover@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:52:45 +1300<br>Subject: Workflow administrator<br>
<div>We are developing a fairly straight forward PO aprproval workflow and using SWU3, have specified a User Id to act as Workflow administrator ready for when things go wrong. In the case where workflow cannot determine the agent (perhaps master data is missing), we want the work item to be sent to WF Admin.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Once it is with WF Admin, we do not want them to have the option to approve it, only to forward it to the correct agent.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Is this possible and how?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I thank you for your time and good advice.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Regards<br><br>Gerald Pecover<br><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pecover@gmail.com" target="_blank">pecover@gmail.com
</a> </div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Keohan, Susan" <<a href="mailto:keohan@ll.mit.edu">keohan@ll.mit.edu</a>><br>To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">
sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:50:44 -0500<br>Subject: RE: Workflow administrator<br>
<div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue">
<div>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hi Gerald,</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Excellent question. I suppose you could remove the authorizations to release the PO from the Basis authorizations. On the other hand, the Workflow Administrator needs a lot of authorizations (sometimes) in order to keep things moving. Ideally, this person would be a trusted individual who would know NOT to approve the PO, but to initiate the correction procedures necessary, and restart the workflow.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">You could have your workflow look for approvers in the step prior to the approval task. If no approvers are found, then let that task error out. The WF Admin can take corrective measures and you are still not giving the approval task to the WF Admin.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Finally, regarding trusted individuals, your workflow administrator will (or at least *<b>ought</b>*) to have access to many powerful workflow transactions, and if they were determined, they would find a way to approve a PO. I've been doing WF Admin for years, and I've never wanted my fingerprints on a PO approval.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Regards,</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sue</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">---</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">Susan R. Keohan</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">SAP Workflow Specialist</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">MIT Lincoln Laboratory</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">244 Wood Street</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">LI-200</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">Lexington, MA. 02420</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">Phone: 781-981-3561</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas">Fax: 781-981-1607</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Consolas"><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:keohan@ll.mit.edu" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: blue">keohan@ll.mit.edu</span></a></span>
</p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>
[mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Gerald Pecover<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:53 PM
<br><b>To:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Workflow administrator</span></p></div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p>We are developing a fairly straight forward PO aprproval workflow and using SWU3, have specified a User Id to act as Workflow administrator ready for when things go wrong. In the case where workflow cannot determine the agent (perhaps master data is missing), we want the work item to be sent to WF Admin.
</p></div>
<div>
<p> </p></div>
<div>
<p>Once it is with WF Admin, we do not want them to have the option to approve it, only to forward it to the correct agent.</p></div>
<div>
<p> </p></div>
<div>
<p>Is this possible and how?</p></div>
<div>
<p> </p></div>
<div>
<p>I thank you for your time and good advice.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Regards<br><br>Gerald Pecover<br><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pecover@gmail.com" target="_blank">pecover@gmail.com
</a> </p></div></div></div><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Srinivasan Ramanan <<a href="mailto:r_m_n_n@hotmail.com">r_m_n_n@hotmail.com</a>><br>To: "SAP Workflow Users' Group" <
<a href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu">sap-wug@mit.edu</a>><br>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:29:45 -0500<br>Subject: RE: Resource planning<br>
<div>Thanks Rick,<br>Your template for 'functional specification' could also be a starting point for my workflow resource planning.<br> <br>Thanks again<br>Ramanan<br><br>
<blockquote>
<hr>
Subject: RE: Resource planning<br>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:39:38 -0600<br>From: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Rick.Sample@gbe.com" target="_blank">Rick.Sample@gbe.com</a><br>To:
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br><br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span>1. The Multiplicity Rule. 1 + 1 does not = 2 if on same project. Laws of diminishing returns. (i.e. tripping over each other)</span>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span>2. From the sound of it whatever your initial guesstimate, double it!</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span>3. Your assumption that since you are using HR org, agent assignment is a non-issue needs adjusting IMHO.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span>re:>> <font color="#000000">Hence agent assignments could be not that complex.</font></span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" color="#000080" size="3"><span>Unless you are doing the simplest 'Manager of', </span></font><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"><span>you are in for a surprise!
</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"><span></span></font><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"><span></span></font> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"><span>From the sound of it, my first suggestion would be to get someone in that can do this analysis work.</span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"><span><font size="2"></font> </span></font></div>
<div><font size="2">Rick Sample<br>SAP Business Workflow Developer<br>Graybar, Inc.<br><br><br><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size="3"></font> </div>
<div><br> </div>
<div lang="en-us" dir="ltr" align="left">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">
sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Srinivasan Ramanan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> SAP Workflow Users' Group<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Resource planning<br></font><br> </div>
<div></div>Thanks Mike,<br>I appreciate your inputs. Its really difficult to answer this question. <br>What I did is: ( Since I am in the position to answer this to my company as an employee of the company )<br>I assumed these followings:
<br> 10 complex workflows ( having more than 20 tasks )<br> 30 medium ( 10 to 20 tasks )<br> 60 simple ( less than 10 tasks )<br> <br>It is decided to implement HR just for Organizational units purposes. It helps both roles and authorization management. Hence agent assignments could be not that complex.
<br> <br>Having a time line of 6 months only for these work, I am proposing:<br> 6 Personnels for development over six months period<br> 4 to 6 Personnels for maintain and administer - for support after go live
<br> <br>Has anyone else could share some ideas if you have executed projects even not to this magnitude, but with some 10 - 20 workflows development. I need some info on how many personnels, how many workflows and how many months. It will be kind of easy to extrapolate. I do understand that it will only be an empirical value for resource planning. But we can start with min. resource and continue to agument as and when the workflows start development phase.
<br> <br>regards<br>Ramanan<br><br>
<hr>
From: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:asap@workflowconnections.com" target="_blank">asap@workflowconnections.com</a><br>To: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu" target="_blank">
sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br>Subject: RE: Resource planning<br>Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:08:07 +0000<br><br><br>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Hello Ramanan, </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">That's a pretty major project, and there is a good reason all projects go through a planning phase. Faced with the same question I would estimate at least a month's work to come up with an answer that's anywhere near realistic.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">For starters there are many factors beyond workflow that will influence your requirements, such as size and makeup of the overall project team, length of project, willingness to invest in the right skills. Are you going to employ 4+ years' experienced consultants, or find ABAPers who have built the occasional WF, or train up inhouse staff?
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Next you have the workflows themselves. I've built approval workflows taking from two days to over a year. Even specific workflow scenarios are no measure: an invoice approval can take 10 days at one client and 5 months at another (also based on personal experience).
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">You ask how many administrators? What sort of total volumes do you expect? (You obviously need to volume estimates of each of the workflows..). Do you use HR? More experienced resources building the WFs will pay off in reduced maintenance. The workflow I mentioned above created jobs for two administrators – just looking after the one WF.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Based on the info in your question, I would seriously suggest you engage an Experienced (with a capital 'E') consultant for at least a few days to get you started on answering it.
</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">If you insist on a guess: 50% chance you need between 5 and 10 people, 50% chance you need more or less than that. Flip a coin to see which one. </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Cheers, </span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Mike</span></p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
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<p><b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">
sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Srinivasan Ramanan<br><b>
Sent:</b> 14 January 2008 21:58<br><b>To:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:sap-wug@mit.edu" target="_blank">sap-wug@mit.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Resource planning</span></p></div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dear WUG,<br>There are 100 workflows expected to be up and running in ECC6.0<br>Please consider that it is not know exactly what are the workflows now.<br>But please consider that workflows will be used for create and maintain of all major master data objects and pretty much for regular task distributions like PO release, invoice processing etc.,
<br> <br>My questions are:<br> <br>How many personnels are required at the Development phase for these 100 workflows?<br> <br>How may personnels are required for 'maintain' and 'administer' the workflows?
<br> <br>Anyone who worked at this level, please I value your inputs very much.<br>Please respond with your experiences and emprical calculations.<br> <br>thanks in advance.<br>Ramanan</span></p>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
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http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/sap-wug</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Regards<br><br>Gerald Pecover<br><br><a href="mailto:pecover@gmail.com">pecover@gmail.com</a>