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Dear Mike,<BR>
I do understand all the points in your e-mail. I completely agree that more effort put on planning makes the steps easy in realization.<BR>
The situation is I have is:<BR>
<BR>
We expect that there will be 100 workflows in the ECC6.0<BR>
We do also have some workflows running at differect geographical locations. The count is 50. <BR>
We just doubled it up that when all locations get into ECC6.0 , we predicted that count to go to 100.<BR>
We have 4 personnels who already developed and are administering the current 50.<BR>
But please bear in mind that some WFs may not be upto best practice, thats why needed some resources to bring these current to a best practice levels and also contribute for newer ones.<BR>
<BR>
Having said all that, whats on the planning side. No Functional specifications exist for the TO BE workflows, which I have numbered as 100.<BR>
We expect them to be completed by Feb 2008 end.<BR>
March is the kickoff for realization. Actual work begins in April.<BR>
<BR>
Now all the requird resource allocation is started, but in progress. I am in the process of estimating the needs for WF and I know I have 4 personnels. It always take some time to complete the re-trainng in-house personnels or recruit new developers.<BR>
<BR>
<STRONG>So I have started my resource planning I think very well ahead ( as you said no numbers will be whispered until a meaningful estimate is in hand ), and I hope to come up with a better resolution by end of Feb 2008. </STRONG><BR>
<BR>
What I really meant by empirical is a kind of stastical. I know that statistical also sometimes not considered scientific. You can not start planning at meticulous level like ( 175 mins for a development of WF task with ABAP coding of 1500 lines ). We will end up with very good perfectly executable plan, but would have missed the bus ( ie. deadlines ). So I have no option but to trade of some accuracy in my estimate to be in the game.<BR>
<BR>
with sincere regards<BR>
Ramanan<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> <BR>
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From: asap@workflowconnections.com<BR>To: sap-wug@mit.edu<BR>Subject: RE: Resource planning<BR>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:28:09 +0000<BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><sigh> I just told you I wouldn’t so much as whisper an estimate without about a month’s research. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Not even a day later you have a proposal. A proposal that ignores the majority of what I said before. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">I take back my statement about suggesting you get an Experienced consultant in. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Instead, I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you get an EXPERIENCED consultant to help you out. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Planning is not a game. It has a far bigger influence on cost and success than the build itself (which should take up less than half the time). SAP only charge a couple of thousand dollars per day. I say “only” because they’ll save you tens of thousands (If you listen to them of course). How so? By not having to scrap or redo parts of a badly planned project, never mind the damage to your reputation. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">How do I know it’s already badly planned? See first two sentences of this email. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Please understand that I’m not having a go at you, but your two posts make it clear that you need a reality check. Not giving you an answer is the most helpful we can be. Anyone that gives you estimates on this list will do more harm than good because they will probably be wrong (Ask on SDN and you will get plenty of those).</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Even though the WUG ranks just behind Wikipedia in knowledge content, there are just too many factors to do this with the help of a mailing list. Feel free to ask about specifics as you work your way through requirements gathering. </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Good luck, </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Mike</SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">PS: Your use of the word ‘empirical’ is the exact opposite of its meaning. Your values are certainly not based on facts and observation. </SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Srinivasan Ramanan<BR><B>Sent:</B> 15 January 2008 15:01<BR><B>To:</B> SAP Workflow Users' Group<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Resource planning</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Thanks Mike,<BR>I appreciate your inputs. Its really difficult to answer this question. <BR>What I did is: ( Since I am in the position to answer this to my company as an employee of the company )<BR>I assumed these followings:<BR> 10 complex workflows ( having more than 20 tasks )<BR> 30 medium ( 10 to 20 tasks )<BR> 60 simple ( less than 10 tasks )<BR> <BR>It is decided to implement HR just for Organizational units purposes. It helps both roles and authorization management. Hence agent assignments could be not that complex.<BR> <BR>Having a time line of 6 months only for these work, I am proposing:<BR> 6 Personnels for development over six months period<BR> 4 to 6 Personnels for maintain and administer - for support after go live<BR> <BR>Has anyone else could share some ideas if you have executed projects even not to this magnitude, but with some 10 - 20 workflows development. I need some info on how many personnels, how many workflows and how many months. It will be kind of easy to extrapolate. I do understand that it will only be an empirical value for resource planning. But we can start with min. resource and continue to agument as and when the workflows start development phase.<BR> <BR>regards<BR>Ramanan</SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From: asap@workflowconnections.com<BR>To: sap-wug@mit.edu<BR>Subject: RE: Resource planning<BR>Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:08:07 +0000<BR><BR></SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Hello Ramanan, </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">That’s a pretty major project, and there is a good reason all projects go through a planning phase. Faced with the same question I would estimate at least a month’s work to come up with an answer that’s anywhere near realistic. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">For starters there are many factors beyond workflow that will influence your requirements, such as size and makeup of the overall project team, length of project, willingness to invest in the right skills. Are you going to employ 4+ years’ experienced consultants, or find ABAPers who have built the occasional WF, or train up inhouse staff? </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Next you have the workflows themselves. I’ve built approval workflows taking from two days to over a year. Even specific workflow scenarios are no measure: an invoice approval can take 10 days at one client and 5 months at another (also based on personal experience). </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">You ask how many administrators? What sort of total volumes do you expect? (You obviously need to volume estimates of each of the workflows..). Do you use HR? More experienced resources building the WFs will pay off in reduced maintenance. The workflow I mentioned above created jobs for two administrators – just looking after the one WF.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Based on the info in your question, I would seriously suggest you engage an Experienced (with a capital ‘E’) consultant for at least a few days to get you started on answering it. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If you insist on a guess: 50% chance you need between 5 and 10 people, 50% chance you need more or less than that. Flip a coin to see which one. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Cheers, </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Mike</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:sap-wug-bounces@mit.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Srinivasan Ramanan<BR><B>Sent:</B> 14 January 2008 21:58<BR><B>To:</B> sap-wug@mit.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Resource planning</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> </SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Dear WUG,<BR>There are 100 workflows expected to be up and running in ECC6.0<BR>Please consider that it is not know exactly what are the workflows now.<BR>But please consider that workflows will be used for create and maintain of all major master data objects and pretty much for regular task distributions like PO release, invoice processing etc.,<BR> <BR>My questions are:<BR> <BR>How many personnels are required at the Development phase for these 100 workflows?<BR> <BR>How may personnels are required for 'maintain' and 'administer' the workflows? <BR> <BR>Anyone who worked at this level, please I value your inputs very much.<BR>Please respond with your experiences and emprical calculations.<BR> <BR>thanks in advance.<BR>Ramanan</SPAN></P>
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