From skosuri at MIT.EDU  Wed Sep  5 14:25:04 2007
From: skosuri at MIT.EDU (Sri Kosuri)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 14:25:04 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
In-Reply-To: <a904f650709050347m9aa13fqd95c284f4bd74f02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a904f650709050347m9aa13fqd95c284f4bd74f02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2b0cb7a10709051125y56ada1e7x17cf6ba380aefd2b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello SC,

Juha Karttunen is trying to do a usability test of OpenWetWare (see below).
If people want to coordinate with him (especially those involved in the user
survey), please contact Juha directly.

Thanks,
Sri

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Juha Karttunen <juha.karttunen at gmail.com>
Date: Sep 5, 2007 6:47 AM
Subject: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
To: skosuri at mit.edu

Hello,

As part of my studies, i will be conducting an usability testing session to
www.openwetware.org at University of Jyv?skyl?, Finland.
The focus of usability testing will be in finding out possible usability
problems in openwetware.org and media wiki platform. User testing will be
conducted with researcher / faculty staff at Jyv?skyl? Uni.
In case you would like to receive the final report and/or participate by
answering few simple questions, let me know.

Cheers,

Juha Karttunen,
Economics Student at University of Jyv?skyl?, Faculty of Information Systems
Sciences
User Experience Specialist at www.idean.com
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From macowell at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 15:29:54 2007
From: macowell at gmail.com (Mackenzie Cowell)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 15:29:54 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd:  Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
In-Reply-To: <2b0cb7a10709051125y56ada1e7x17cf6ba380aefd2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a904f650709050347m9aa13fqd95c284f4bd74f02@mail.gmail.com>
	<2b0cb7a10709051125y56ada1e7x17cf6ba380aefd2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54746a3f0709051229g2d8b849et3180ef346ca57e2c@mail.gmail.com>

Better batten down the hatches and prepare for a storm - this could get
ugly.  Just don't show him the registry.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sri Kosuri <skosuri at mit.edu>
Date: Sep 5, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
To: oww-sc <sc at openwetware.org>, Juha Karttunen <juha.karttunen at gmail.com>

Hello SC,

Juha Karttunen is trying to do a usability test of OpenWetWare (see below).
If people want to coordinate with him (especially those involved in the user
survey), please contact Juha directly.

Thanks,
Sri

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Juha Karttunen <juha.karttunen at gmail.com>
Date: Sep 5, 2007 6:47 AM
Subject: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
To: skosuri at mit.edu

Hello,

As part of my studies, i will be conducting an usability testing session to
www.openwetware.org at University of Jyv?skyl?, Finland.
The focus of usability testing will be in finding out possible usability
problems in openwetware.org and media wiki platform. User testing will be
conducted with researcher / faculty staff at Jyv?skyl? Uni.
In case you would like to receive the final report and/or participate by
answering few simple questions, let me know.

Cheers,

Juha Karttunen,
Economics Student at University of Jyv?skyl?, Faculty of Information Systems
Sciences
User Experience Specialist at www.idean.com


_______________________________________________
OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
sc at openwetware.org
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
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From mattias.rantalainen at imperial.ac.uk  Wed Sep  5 18:26:55 2007
From: mattias.rantalainen at imperial.ac.uk (Rantalainen, Mattias J)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:26:55 +0100
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd:  Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
References: <a904f650709050347m9aa13fqd95c284f4bd74f02@mail.gmail.com><2b0cb7a10709051125y56ada1e7x17cf6ba380aefd2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<54746a3f0709051229g2d8b849et3180ef346ca57e2c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C19C771B6FC9B2409F6715B56C3BA250016700DC@icex2.ic.ac.uk>

Hello All,

Is this a strictly academic project?

I see that Juha Karttunen is also affiliated with idean.com, maybe it doesn't matter. But I think it might be worth to notice if we are actively collaborating with him?

Cheers,
/Mattias


-----Original Message-----
From: oww-sc-bounces at mit.edu on behalf of Mackenzie Cowell
Sent: Wed 9/5/2007 8:29 PM
To: oww-sc at mit.edu
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd:  Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
 
Better batten down the hatches and prepare for a storm - this could get
ugly.  Just don't show him the registry.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sri Kosuri <skosuri at mit.edu>
Date: Sep 5, 2007 2:25 PM
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
To: oww-sc <sc at openwetware.org>, Juha Karttunen <juha.karttunen at gmail.com>

Hello SC,

Juha Karttunen is trying to do a usability test of OpenWetWare (see below).
If people want to coordinate with him (especially those involved in the user
survey), please contact Juha directly.

Thanks,
Sri

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Juha Karttunen <juha.karttunen at gmail.com>
Date: Sep 5, 2007 6:47 AM
Subject: www.openwetware.org usability analysis
To: skosuri at mit.edu

Hello,

As part of my studies, i will be conducting an usability testing session to
www.openwetware.org at University of Jyv?skyl?, Finland.
The focus of usability testing will be in finding out possible usability
problems in openwetware.org and media wiki platform. User testing will be
conducted with researcher / faculty staff at Jyv?skyl? Uni.
In case you would like to receive the final report and/or participate by
answering few simple questions, let me know.

Cheers,

Juha Karttunen,
Economics Student at University of Jyv?skyl?, Faculty of Information Systems
Sciences
User Experience Specialist at www.idean.com


_______________________________________________
OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
sc at openwetware.org
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc

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From jasonk at MIT.EDU  Thu Sep  6 00:08:09 2007
From: jasonk at MIT.EDU (Jason Kelly)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 00:08:09 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] reminder: SC meeting today @ noon EST
Message-ID: <7c085c480709052108h99970dbg1e8e3b5a9c0507dc@mail.gmail.com>

Hi SC,

Reminder that the SC meeting is TH at Noon EST, call 617-324-7520 and
join the chat.

Chairs fill in your reports here:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee/Meeting_-_September_2007

Please add items to the agenda:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee_next_meeting

Or take a look at action list from last month for left over to-do items.
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee_actions

Thanks!
jason


From austin at csail.mit.edu  Thu Sep  6 12:49:04 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:49:04 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] showhide extension to be removed
Message-ID: <87tzq7ivsv.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>

    
    After being deprecated for awhile, I think it's time we remove the
    showhide extension. Converting most pages that use showhide to use
    the new toggle functionality is really easy. See the top of this page:
    http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Austin_J._Che/Extensions/ShowHide

    These are the pages that use the extension (search for __HIDER__)
    http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&redirs=0&searchx=1&search=__HIDER__&limit=500&offset=0

    If people have a moment to convert a few of these pages to use the
    new functionality, we can remove the extension.
    
-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From jasonk at MIT.EDU  Thu Sep  6 14:01:03 2007
From: jasonk at MIT.EDU (Jason Kelly)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 14:01:03 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] September SC meeting notes
Message-ID: <7c085c480709061101y6a6b8c7bl7acdddaf981ffe9b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi SC,

Thanks everyone for calling in today. For those who couldn't make it,
notes are here:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee/Meeting_-_September_2007

action list here:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee_actions

Also, Bill will be working on some community-side features this month
(last month was mostly work on the back-end) so we'll be tapping the
SC for ideas/suggestions.  Looking forward to it!

thanks,
jason


From austin at csail.mit.edu  Fri Sep  7 13:22:46 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:22:46 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Wibbit and wiki databases
Message-ID: <87lkbigzkp.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>


    I've installed wibbit. See:
    http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Wibbit
    
    Any wiki table can be made into an Exhibit and there's some
    special views such as using Google maps or timeline view.

    Look at the source:
    http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=OpenWetWare:Wibbit&action=edit
    
    Also, it comes with a table editor (doesn't seem to work on all
    browsers). At least on firefox, if you go to the edit page above,
    you should see the table button in your edit toolbar. You can
    import from a tab-delimited file and make it into a wiki table.

    I think the BioNumbers database would be a great use of this
    http://openwetware.org/wiki/BioNumbers

    Let me know if people find other interesting uses or think it's
    useful or not.
    
-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From jasonk at MIT.EDU  Fri Sep  7 19:52:09 2007
From: jasonk at MIT.EDU (Jason Kelly)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 19:52:09 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Wibbit and wiki databases
In-Reply-To: <87lkbigzkp.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <87lkbigzkp.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <7c085c480709071652g6fc911f7x2a07cbe1411674f2@mail.gmail.com>

Wow. The table editor is a big step up over making tables with
wiki-code directly.  worth a try for anyone who has been frustrated by
putting tables in the wiki (like me).

thanks for finding this austin,
jason

On 9/7/07, Austin Che <austin at csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>     I've installed wibbit. See:
>     http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Wibbit
>
>     Any wiki table can be made into an Exhibit and there's some
>     special views such as using Google maps or timeline view.
>
>     Look at the source:
>     http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=OpenWetWare:Wibbit&action=edit
>
>     Also, it comes with a table editor (doesn't seem to work on all
>     browsers). At least on firefox, if you go to the edit page above,
>     you should see the table button in your edit toolbar. You can
>     import from a tab-delimited file and make it into a wiki table.
>
>     I think the BioNumbers database would be a great use of this
>     http://openwetware.org/wiki/BioNumbers
>
>     Let me know if people find other interesting uses or think it's
>     useful or not.
>
> --
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>


From austin at csail.mit.edu  Mon Sep 10 16:02:22 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:02:22 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Wibbit and wiki databases
In-Reply-To: <87lkbigzkp.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu> (Austin Che's message of "Fri, 07
	Sep 2007 13:22:46 -0400")
References: <87lkbigzkp.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <87ps0qb86p.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>


    Examples of some Wibbits:

    the BioNumbers database:
    http://openwetware.org/wiki/BioNumbers_data_base
    
    Using bibtex for references:
    http://openwetware.org/wiki/Synthetic_Biology:Articles
    
-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From julius at younglucks.com  Wed Sep 12 09:38:36 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B.Lucks)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:38:36 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] OWW User Survey
Message-ID: <5253D2AA-B1C4-44F7-9C25-CCF0E83B83BE@younglucks.com>

Hi SC,

Vincent and I have (finally) filled in the survey.  Please take a  
minute to view and play around with it:

http://oww.wufoo.com/forms/openwetware-user-survey/

Please send suggestions/correcctions to me, and I will change it.

Let's please also discuss implementation.  I think the issues are:

1.) Do we require usernames in the survey?
2.) How do we send it out (link on the main page, mass email)?

My opinions  are:

1.) No usernames - just leave it open to anyone that wants to fill it  
in, and don't worry about people filling it in more than once. (This  
is just a rough 1st stab at a survey).
2.) We can embed the survey in the wiki, and link to it from the main  
page.  I'll do an SC blog post about it,  and we can just see how  
many people fill it out.  If this doesn't work, we can discuss  
including it in an email to everyone.

Cheers,

Julius and Vincent


From johncumbers at gmail.com  Sat Sep 15 18:59:14 2007
From: johncumbers at gmail.com (John Cumbers)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 18:59:14 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] I'll be slow on e-mail until Dec and low on activity.
Message-ID: <cfd758050709151559h7a045f0n87823cf6ae44bc18@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,
I wanted to warn you that I have the busiest semester of my life ahead of
me, and I'll be slow on e-mail until Dec and low on activity, please excuse
me.
Best wishes,
John


-- 
John Cumbers,  Graduate Student
Biology and Medicine
Brown University, Box G-W
Providence, Rhode Island, 02912, USA
Tel USA: +1 401 523 8190,  Fax: +1 401 863-2166
UK to USA: 0207 617 7824
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From julius at younglucks.com  Mon Sep 17 09:54:39 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B.Lucks)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:54:39 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Last call for Survey Comments
Message-ID: <FFFD1B2F-88B3-4E55-B1C4-94C0276EA24C@younglucks.com>

Hi SC,

This is the last call for comments on the user survey.  (I only have  
one comment so far!!!!).  Please take a second and have a look at the  
survey

http://oww.wufoo.com/forms/openwetware-user-survey/

and email me with feedback (even if you like it as is).  This evening  
I will do any further polishing needed, and erase any trial entries.   
After that I'll create an sc blog post about the survey, and email  
the list again for someone to create a link to it on the main page.

I think the way to implement the survey is to have the blog post and  
the main page link for now, and NOT require any usernames to do the  
survey (i.e. not keep track of who has done it and who has not).  We  
can evaluate whether this strategy worked in a month or so.

Happy Monday!

Julius

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------



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From julius at younglucks.com  Mon Sep 17 19:50:49 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B. Lucks)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:50:49 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] User Survey - Final Form
Message-ID: <C6B0B244-9417-4248-B65F-239A33840F59@younglucks.com>

Hi SC,

Thanks for your comments today.  I cleaned up the survey a bit today,  
and deleted any prior entries.  I think we are finally ready for a  
release!

The link to it is:  http://oww.wufoo.com/forms/openwetware-user-survey/

Can someone please post this on the main page.  Also Jason, I can't  
seem to create a post on the SC blog since you created my personal  
one.  If you tell me how, I'll make an sc blog post about the survey.

Cheers,

Julius

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------



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From austin at csail.mit.edu  Tue Sep 18 14:24:53 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:24:53 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
Message-ID: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>


    We've talked about having DOIs for every page as reviewers appear
    to not appreciate linking to the wiki even when you put a
    particular revision into the url, e.g.
    http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=70777
    
    As a real DOI server is expensive, I was thinking some social
    engineering is called for. I wrote a "doi" server at
    doi.openwetware.org, For example,
    http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777 is a permalink to the above
    and I also strip away all the wiki crap so reviewers won't know
    it's a wiki. It's easy to make any doi knowing the revision ID of
    any page (available from the history). 
    
    Anything it doesn't understand is passed to a real doi server, e.g
    http://doi.openwetware.org/10.1038/nature04342
    
    I'd be curious what people think and especially interested if
    someone who has had problems with submitting wiki references would
    like to try this version.
    
-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From endy at MIT.EDU  Tue Sep 18 14:31:47 2007
From: endy at MIT.EDU (Drew Endy)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:31:47 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>

Austin,

This looks interesting.  But, what is the DOI of the page (in your  
example)?

Can I share "doi: oww70777" in order to point people to this page?

Thanks,
Drew



On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Austin Che wrote:

>
>     We've talked about having DOIs for every page as reviewers appear
>     to not appreciate linking to the wiki even when you put a
>     particular revision into the url, e.g.
>     http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=70777
>
>     As a real DOI server is expensive, I was thinking some social
>     engineering is called for. I wrote a "doi" server at
>     doi.openwetware.org, For example,
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777 is a permalink to the above
>     and I also strip away all the wiki crap so reviewers won't know
>     it's a wiki. It's easy to make any doi knowing the revision ID of
>     any page (available from the history).
>
>     Anything it doesn't understand is passed to a real doi server, e.g
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/10.1038/nature04342
>
>     I'd be curious what people think and especially interested if
>     someone who has had problems with submitting wiki references would
>     like to try this version.
>
> -- 
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc



From julius at younglucks.com  Tue Sep 18 14:34:15 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B. Lucks)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:34:15 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <FA6E7158-4822-4DA7-9BCA-DF90D10743A8@younglucks.com>

This is interesting.  How would you construct the DOI for an  
arbitrary oww page - through the oldid?  How would we make oww DOI's  
work with real doi resolvers (like dx.doi.org)?  Do we have to  
'register' oww DOI's, or an oww DOI schema anywhere to make them more  
official?

Julius

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------



On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Austin Che wrote:

>
>     We've talked about having DOIs for every page as reviewers appear
>     to not appreciate linking to the wiki even when you put a
>     particular revision into the url, e.g.
>     http://openwetware.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&oldid=70777
>
>     As a real DOI server is expensive, I was thinking some social
>     engineering is called for. I wrote a "doi" server at
>     doi.openwetware.org, For example,
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777 is a permalink to the above
>     and I also strip away all the wiki crap so reviewers won't know
>     it's a wiki. It's easy to make any doi knowing the revision ID of
>     any page (available from the history).
>
>     Anything it doesn't understand is passed to a real doi server, e.g
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/10.1038/nature04342
>
>     I'd be curious what people think and especially interested if
>     someone who has had problems with submitting wiki references would
>     like to try this version.
>
> -- 
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc

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From austin at csail.mit.edu  Tue Sep 18 14:38:50 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:38:50 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu> (Drew Endy's
	message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:31:47 -0400")
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
Message-ID: <87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>

Drew Endy <endy at MIT.EDU> mumbled mindlessly:

> Austin,
>
> This looks interesting.  But, what is the DOI of the page (in your
> example)?
>
> Can I share "doi: oww70777" in order to point people to this page?

    To be clear, it's not a "doi." You would have to reference
    http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777
    
    We could just as easily make it
    http://foo.openwetware.org/oww70777
    
    The only reason it says doi is because this is social engineering
    and not a technical solution over what currently exists.
    
"Julius B. Lucks" <julius at younglucks.com> spake sagely:
> This is interesting.  How would you construct the DOI for an arbitrary
> oww page - through the oldid?  How would we make oww DOI's  work with
> real doi resolvers (like dx.doi.org)?  Do we have to  'register' oww
> DOI's, or an oww DOI schema anywhere to make them more  official?

    Yes the oldid is a unique id for each revision and you can just
    use that. To get real DOIs and make them official like you're
    talking about costs $25K/year.
    
-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From endy at MIT.EDU  Tue Sep 18 14:44:47 2007
From: endy at MIT.EDU (Drew Endy)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:44:47 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <999605BA-30FD-4705-973E-CD76F650822D@mit.edu>

Why does it cost so much?


On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Austin Che wrote:

> Drew Endy <endy at MIT.EDU> mumbled mindlessly:
>
>> Austin,
>>
>> This looks interesting.  But, what is the DOI of the page (in your
>> example)?
>>
>> Can I share "doi: oww70777" in order to point people to this page?
>
>     To be clear, it's not a "doi." You would have to reference
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777
>
>     We could just as easily make it
>     http://foo.openwetware.org/oww70777
>
>     The only reason it says doi is because this is social engineering
>     and not a technical solution over what currently exists.
>
> "Julius B. Lucks" <julius at younglucks.com> spake sagely:
>> This is interesting.  How would you construct the DOI for an  
>> arbitrary
>> oww page - through the oldid?  How would we make oww DOI's  work with
>> real doi resolvers (like dx.doi.org)?  Do we have to  'register' oww
>> DOI's, or an oww DOI schema anywhere to make them more  official?
>
>     Yes the oldid is a unique id for each revision and you can just
>     use that. To get real DOIs and make them official like you're
>     talking about costs $25K/year.
>
> -- 
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc



From julius at younglucks.com  Tue Sep 18 14:47:16 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B. Lucks)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:47:16 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com>

Well it seems to me that if we call them DOI's, but they are not  
resolvable by dx.doi.org (or some other doi resolver), then they  
might wind up juts confusing people.  Since DOI's have an  
infrastructure surrounding them, I would think we would want to try  
to plug into that as much as possible in order to be 'official'.

What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration of  
the numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't  
automatically register every page, but only pages that people request  
to be registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  
organization would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  
donated to us?  I wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  
very important issue for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.

Cheers,

Julius

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------



On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Austin Che wrote:

> Drew Endy <endy at MIT.EDU> mumbled mindlessly:
>
>> Austin,
>>
>> This looks interesting.  But, what is the DOI of the page (in your
>> example)?
>>
>> Can I share "doi: oww70777" in order to point people to this page?
>
>     To be clear, it's not a "doi." You would have to reference
>     http://doi.openwetware.org/oww70777
>
>     We could just as easily make it
>     http://foo.openwetware.org/oww70777
>
>     The only reason it says doi is because this is social engineering
>     and not a technical solution over what currently exists.
>
> "Julius B. Lucks" <julius at younglucks.com> spake sagely:
>> This is interesting.  How would you construct the DOI for an  
>> arbitrary
>> oww page - through the oldid?  How would we make oww DOI's  work with
>> real doi resolvers (like dx.doi.org)?  Do we have to  'register' oww
>> DOI's, or an oww DOI schema anywhere to make them more  official?
>
>     Yes the oldid is a unique id for each revision and you can just
>     use that. To get real DOIs and make them official like you're
>     talking about costs $25K/year.
>
> -- 
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc

-------------- next part --------------
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From austin at csail.mit.edu  Tue Sep 18 15:11:45 2007
From: austin at csail.mit.edu (Austin Che)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:11:45 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com> (Julius
	B. Lucks's message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:47:16 -0400")
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com>
Message-ID: <87hclrdc0e.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>


> What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration of the
> numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't  automatically
> register every page, but only pages that people request  to be
> registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  organization
> would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  donated to us?  I
> wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  very important issue
> for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.

    Here are the registration agencies.
    http://doi.org/registration_agencies.html

    I don't know anything else about DOIs. The 25K/year number was
    from Sri or Jason.
    Some lower numbers are on this page: http://www.medra.org/en/terms.htm    
 
    I actually really don't understand the purpose of DOIs. As stated
    on that page, "If the access to the service is not renewed, the
    persistence of DOIs is guaranteed for at least 5 years after the
    payment of the last annual fee. In order to maintain the
    persistence of DOIs after ceasing the use of service, the payment
    of 0,1 euros for each document is required." so even DOIs aren't
    guarenteed to be permanent. And if the OWW site goes down, why
    would it matter if you could resolve a DOI anyway as the content
    is no longer there. Thus I see no technical benefits for linking
    to a OWW page via some indirect doi linking.

-- 
Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899


From julius at younglucks.com  Tue Sep 18 15:25:15 2007
From: julius at younglucks.com (Julius B. Lucks)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:25:15 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <87hclrdc0e.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com>
	<87hclrdc0e.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <734C7F73-05B5-4716-9745-EE5A9C4175F7@younglucks.com>

I guess DOI's are one incarnation of URN's with domain-specificity to  
e-publications.  It seems really silly that the DOI registration is  
not more permanent, which more likely than not has something to do  
with revenues rather than implementing a successful URN scheme.

I'll have to read up more on DOI's to be able to discuss this more in  
a semi-informed manner.  For now, I don't see any problem with what  
you proposed, although it doesn't seem to be any different than just  
giving oww url's with an oldid parameter.  Perhaps masking these  
url's with other url's won't change the reviewers opinions once they  
figure out what is going on.  It seems like we need something more on  
the lines of a culture change where people find it acceptable to  
reference wiki pages.  Then we can use whatever name archiving scheme  
we want.

Can anyone share recent experience on reviewers not accepting oww  
url's as references?

Cheers,

Julius

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------



On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Austin Che wrote:

>
>> What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration of  
>> the
>> numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't  automatically
>> register every page, but only pages that people request  to be
>> registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  organization
>> would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  donated to us?  I
>> wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  very important issue
>> for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.
>
>     Here are the registration agencies.
>     http://doi.org/registration_agencies.html
>
>     I don't know anything else about DOIs. The 25K/year number was
>     from Sri or Jason.
>     Some lower numbers are on this page: http://www.medra.org/en/ 
> terms.htm
>
>     I actually really don't understand the purpose of DOIs. As stated
>     on that page, "If the access to the service is not renewed, the
>     persistence of DOIs is guaranteed for at least 5 years after the
>     payment of the last annual fee. In order to maintain the
>     persistence of DOIs after ceasing the use of service, the payment
>     of 0,1 euros for each document is required." so even DOIs aren't
>     guarenteed to be permanent. And if the OWW site goes down, why
>     would it matter if you could resolve a DOI anyway as the content
>     is no longer there. Thus I see no technical benefits for linking
>     to a OWW page via some indirect doi linking.
>
> -- 
> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc

-------------- next part --------------
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From endy at MIT.EDU  Tue Sep 18 15:34:19 2007
From: endy at MIT.EDU (Drew Endy)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:34:19 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <734C7F73-05B5-4716-9745-EE5A9C4175F7@younglucks.com>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>
	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com>
	<87hclrdc0e.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>
	<734C7F73-05B5-4716-9745-EE5A9C4175F7@younglucks.com>
Message-ID: <E19B2A30-D053-4EB6-8830-1400730C081E@mit.edu>

DOIs are readily recognized by published, academics, and grant  
reviewers.  This is largely because publishers give DOI numbers on  
the header or footer or a paper, right next to the volume, date, and  
page number data, specific to that particular journal and article.   
Because most every journal is listing DOIs, they have become a common  
form of reference.  From an appearances perspective, I have had no  
problem citing materials published in DSpace via their DOI number.   
For example, I've cited technical reports published in the the  
synthetic biology DSpace archive as references in Nature articles.   
So, there's some good amount of social acceptance as to what a DOI  
number is (whether it is warranted or not by the infrastructure  
backside is a different matter).

One thing that I like about our setting up a DOI server is that it  
would basically let folks start to build "journals" or "series" on  
top of OWW.

So far as costs... it looks like that there are some options.

First, we could partner with a university who already has a DOI  
allocation for some experimental work. But, note that we likely want  
to give a DOI to every edit / page on OWW, so this may not be practical?

But, check this out:

"Can DOIs be made available at no charge? Yes.

     (a) IDF is willing to allocate a DOI prefix free of charge to  
organizations for limited experimental non-commercial uses. Please  
contact us if you wish to apply for this."

From,
http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/maintenance.html

Or, it looks like we can get an affiliate membership for $5k annually:
http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/governance.html





On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Julius B. Lucks wrote:

> I guess DOI's are one incarnation of URN's with domain-specificity  
> to e-publications.  It seems really silly that the DOI registration  
> is not more permanent, which more likely than not has something to  
> do with revenues rather than implementing a successful URN scheme.
>
> I'll have to read up more on DOI's to be able to discuss this more  
> in a semi-informed manner.  For now, I don't see any problem with  
> what you proposed, although it doesn't seem to be any different  
> than just giving oww url's with an oldid parameter.  Perhaps  
> masking these url's with other url's won't change the reviewers  
> opinions once they figure out what is going on.  It seems like we  
> need something more on the lines of a culture change where people  
> find it acceptable to reference wiki pages.  Then we can use  
> whatever name archiving scheme we want.
>
> Can anyone share recent experience on reviewers not accepting oww  
> url's as references?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julius
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -----------------
> Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
> http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ------------------
>
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Austin Che wrote:
>
>>
>>> What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration  
>>> of the
>>> numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't   
>>> automatically
>>> register every page, but only pages that people request  to be
>>> registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  organization
>>> would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  donated to us?  I
>>> wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  very important  
>>> issue
>>> for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.
>>
>>     Here are the registration agencies.
>>     http://doi.org/registration_agencies.html
>>
>>     I don't know anything else about DOIs. The 25K/year number was
>>     from Sri or Jason.
>>     Some lower numbers are on this page: http://www.medra.org/en/ 
>> terms.htm
>>
>>     I actually really don't understand the purpose of DOIs. As stated
>>     on that page, "If the access to the service is not renewed, the
>>     persistence of DOIs is guaranteed for at least 5 years after the
>>     payment of the last annual fee. In order to maintain the
>>     persistence of DOIs after ceasing the use of service, the payment
>>     of 0,1 euros for each document is required." so even DOIs aren't
>>     guarenteed to be permanent. And if the OWW site goes down, why
>>     would it matter if you could resolve a DOI anyway as the content
>>     is no longer there. Thus I see no technical benefits for linking
>>     to a OWW page via some indirect doi linking.
>>
>> -- 
>> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>> sc at openwetware.org
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc



From endy at MIT.EDU  Tue Sep 18 16:30:29 2007
From: endy at MIT.EDU (Drew Endy)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:30:29 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] Fwd:  page DOIs
References: <d4a7cabb3ebdf31f3358c6d1c09eebed@csail.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <B50197DE-70B6-4790-9939-D04EB6DA4675@MIT.EDU>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Tom Knight <tk at csail.mit.edu>
> Date: September 18, 2007 4:27:32 PM EDT
> To: Drew Endy <endy at MIT.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
>
> This would be a perfect thing to ask Nature to do for us -- sponsor  
> the DOI's for OWW.  It's concrete, easy to understand, down their  
> alley, and worth something to us.
>
> I agree with Drew's comments, and they are a repetition of what I  
> said when you all were over here -- the major role of the DOI is as  
> a journal-friendly way of referencing work, with increasing  
> importance and acceptance.  It doesn't matter what the reality of  
> their longevity and universality is; what matters is the perception  
> of that longevity and universality.
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:34 PM, Drew Endy wrote:
>
>> DOIs are readily recognized by published, academics, and grant
>> reviewers.  This is largely because publishers give DOI numbers on
>> the header or footer or a paper, right next to the volume, date, and
>> page number data, specific to that particular journal and article.
>> Because most every journal is listing DOIs, they have become a common
>> form of reference.  From an appearances perspective, I have had no
>> problem citing materials published in DSpace via their DOI number.
>> For example, I've cited technical reports published in the the
>> synthetic biology DSpace archive as references in Nature articles.
>> So, there's some good amount of social acceptance as to what a DOI
>> number is (whether it is warranted or not by the infrastructure
>> backside is a different matter).
>>
>> One thing that I like about our setting up a DOI server is that it
>> would basically let folks start to build "journals" or "series" on
>> top of OWW.
>>
>> So far as costs... it looks like that there are some options.
>>
>> First, we could partner with a university who already has a DOI
>> allocation for some experimental work. But, note that we likely want
>> to give a DOI to every edit / page on OWW, so this may not be  
>> practical?
>>
>> But, check this out:
>>
>> "Can DOIs be made available at no charge? Yes.
>>
>>      (a) IDF is willing to allocate a DOI prefix free of charge to
>> organizations for limited experimental non-commercial uses. Please
>> contact us if you wish to apply for this."
>>
>> From,
>> http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/maintenance.html
>>
>> Or, it looks like we can get an affiliate membership for $5k  
>> annually:
>> http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/governance.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Julius B. Lucks wrote:
>>
>>> I guess DOI's are one incarnation of URN's with domain-specificity
>>> to e-publications.  It seems really silly that the DOI registration
>>> is not more permanent, which more likely than not has something to
>>> do with revenues rather than implementing a successful URN scheme.
>>>
>>> I'll have to read up more on DOI's to be able to discuss this more
>>> in a semi-informed manner.  For now, I don't see any problem with
>>> what you proposed, although it doesn't seem to be any different
>>> than just giving oww url's with an oldid parameter.  Perhaps
>>> masking these url's with other url's won't change the reviewers
>>> opinions once they figure out what is going on.  It seems like we
>>> need something more on the lines of a culture change where people
>>> find it acceptable to reference wiki pages.  Then we can use
>>> whatever name archiving scheme we want.
>>>
>>> Can anyone share recent experience on reviewers not accepting oww
>>> url's as references?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Julius
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> --
>>> -----------------
>>> Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
>>> http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> --
>>> ------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Austin Che wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration
>>>>> of the
>>>>> numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't
>>>>> automatically
>>>>> register every page, but only pages that people request  to be
>>>>> registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  organization
>>>>> would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  donated to  
>>>>> us?  I
>>>>> wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  very important
>>>>> issue
>>>>> for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.
>>>>
>>>>     Here are the registration agencies.
>>>>     http://doi.org/registration_agencies.html
>>>>
>>>>     I don't know anything else about DOIs. The 25K/year number was
>>>>     from Sri or Jason.
>>>>     Some lower numbers are on this page: http://www.medra.org/en/
>>>> terms.htm
>>>>
>>>>     I actually really don't understand the purpose of DOIs. As  
>>>> stated
>>>>     on that page, "If the access to the service is not renewed, the
>>>>     persistence of DOIs is guaranteed for at least 5 years after  
>>>> the
>>>>     payment of the last annual fee. In order to maintain the
>>>>     persistence of DOIs after ceasing the use of service, the  
>>>> payment
>>>>     of 0,1 euros for each document is required." so even DOIs  
>>>> aren't
>>>>     guarenteed to be permanent. And if the OWW site goes down, why
>>>>     would it matter if you could resolve a DOI anyway as the  
>>>> content
>>>>     is no longer there. Thus I see no technical benefits for  
>>>> linking
>>>>     to a OWW page via some indirect doi linking.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>>>> sc at openwetware.org
>>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>>> sc at openwetware.org
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>> sc at openwetware.org
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>



From ilyas at MIT.EDU  Tue Sep 18 18:04:42 2007
From: ilyas at MIT.EDU (Ilya Sytchev)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:04:42 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] page DOIs
In-Reply-To: <E19B2A30-D053-4EB6-8830-1400730C081E@mit.edu>
References: <873axbesqy.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>	<212857E1-6531-4C5C-AE75-DC85F7F6D607@mit.edu>	<87ps0fddj9.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>	<A2E7ED46-AFCC-454E-A774-EB2148EA2288@younglucks.com>	<87hclrdc0e.fsf@nitsua.mit.edu>	<734C7F73-05B5-4716-9745-EE5A9C4175F7@younglucks.com>
	<E19B2A30-D053-4EB6-8830-1400730C081E@mit.edu>
Message-ID: <46F04B7A.4090103@mit.edu>

The following may be useful to clarify the purpose of DOI.  The DOI 
system was established to provide persistent identifiers for digital 
content because URLs were "never meant to be an identifier but only to 
designate the location of objects" 
(http://www.press.umich.edu/jep/04-02/davidson.html). In other words, 
DOIs were designed to be generic enough so that they could be used on 
top of any system, including but not limited to DNS/Internet.  The DOI 
system provides a level of indirection between the identifier and the 
object it identifies.  This is very useful for keeping URLs current - 
when location of an object changes, you just need to update the URL 
associated with the object's DOI.

Besides resolution services, the DOI proxies/resolvers (which are 
operated by the Registration Agencies and are currently web-based) also 
maintain some structured metadata (like author, date, title, etc) for 
every object.  This is useful for more efficient searching, for example.

To obtain the real DOIs for OWW content, we'd need to register each DOI 
with a DOI Registration Agency.  This apparently requires an yearly fee 
(just like the Internet domain registration fee) and possibly, a 
one-time fee for the DOI prefix (http://www.medra.org/en/terms.htm, 
http://www.crossref.org/02publishers/20pub_fees.html).

There's more information about DOI system available here:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/Identifiers#DOI
Also, a pretty good article here:
http://www.contentdirections.com/materials/PRQ-CDIPracticalGuide.htm


Drew Endy wrote:
> DOIs are readily recognized by published, academics, and grant  
> reviewers.  This is largely because publishers give DOI numbers on  
> the header or footer or a paper, right next to the volume, date, and  
> page number data, specific to that particular journal and article.   
> Because most every journal is listing DOIs, they have become a common  
> form of reference.  From an appearances perspective, I have had no  
> problem citing materials published in DSpace via their DOI number.   
> For example, I've cited technical reports published in the the  
> synthetic biology DSpace archive as references in Nature articles.   
> So, there's some good amount of social acceptance as to what a DOI  
> number is (whether it is warranted or not by the infrastructure  
> backside is a different matter).
> 
> One thing that I like about our setting up a DOI server is that it  
> would basically let folks start to build "journals" or "series" on  
> top of OWW.
> 
> So far as costs... it looks like that there are some options.
> 
> First, we could partner with a university who already has a DOI  
> allocation for some experimental work. But, note that we likely want  
> to give a DOI to every edit / page on OWW, so this may not be practical?
> 
> But, check this out:
> 
> "Can DOIs be made available at no charge? Yes.
> 
>      (a) IDF is willing to allocate a DOI prefix free of charge to  
> organizations for limited experimental non-commercial uses. Please  
> contact us if you wish to apply for this."
> 
> From,
> http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/maintenance.html
> 
> Or, it looks like we can get an affiliate membership for $5k annually:
> http://www.doi.org/handbook_2000/governance.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Julius B. Lucks wrote:
> 
>> I guess DOI's are one incarnation of URN's with domain-specificity  
>> to e-publications.  It seems really silly that the DOI registration  
>> is not more permanent, which more likely than not has something to  
>> do with revenues rather than implementing a successful URN scheme.
>>
>> I'll have to read up more on DOI's to be able to discuss this more  
>> in a semi-informed manner.  For now, I don't see any problem with  
>> what you proposed, although it doesn't seem to be any different  
>> than just giving oww url's with an oldid parameter.  Perhaps  
>> masking these url's with other url's won't change the reviewers  
>> opinions once they figure out what is going on.  It seems like we  
>> need something more on the lines of a culture change where people  
>> find it acceptable to reference wiki pages.  Then we can use  
>> whatever name archiving scheme we want.
>>
>> Can anyone share recent experience on reviewers not accepting oww  
>> url's as references?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Julius
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -----------------
>> Please Reply to My Permanent Address: julius at younglucks.com
>> http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/User:Julius_B._Lucks
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Austin Che wrote:
>>
>>>> What is the big cost associated with DOI's?  Is it registration  
>>>> of the
>>>> numbers, hardware costs, or both?  Perhaps if we don't   
>>>> automatically
>>>> register every page, but only pages that people request  to be
>>>> registered, we could keep the cost down.  Also, what  organization
>>>> would we contact to possibly get DOI registration  donated to us?  I
>>>> wouldn't mind pursuing this, as I think it is a  very important  
>>>> issue
>>>> for us in terms of 'legitimizing' oww content.
>>>     Here are the registration agencies.
>>>     http://doi.org/registration_agencies.html
>>>
>>>     I don't know anything else about DOIs. The 25K/year number was
>>>     from Sri or Jason.
>>>     Some lower numbers are on this page: http://www.medra.org/en/ 
>>> terms.htm
>>>
>>>     I actually really don't understand the purpose of DOIs. As stated
>>>     on that page, "If the access to the service is not renewed, the
>>>     persistence of DOIs is guaranteed for at least 5 years after the
>>>     payment of the last annual fee. In order to maintain the
>>>     persistence of DOIs after ceasing the use of service, the payment
>>>     of 0,1 euros for each document is required." so even DOIs aren't
>>>     guarenteed to be permanent. And if the OWW site goes down, why
>>>     would it matter if you could resolve a DOI anyway as the content
>>>     is no longer there. Thus I see no technical benefits for linking
>>>     to a OWW page via some indirect doi linking.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Austin Che           <austin at csail.mit.edu>          (617)253-5899
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>>> sc at openwetware.org
>>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
>> sc at openwetware.org
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OpenWetWare Steering Committee Mailing List
> sc at openwetware.org
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-sc


From sjkoch at unm.edu  Wed Sep 26 06:03:23 2007
From: sjkoch at unm.edu (Steven J. Koch)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:03:23 -0600
Subject: [OWW-SC] OWW Lab Notebook Brainstorming Session
Message-ID: <001501c80024$7a3fe6d0$6ebfb470$@edu>

http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Feature_list/Lab_notebook/2007_Oct_B
rainstorming 

Dear OWW Community,

Later this fall, OWW is going to begin a major effort to implement new
features to improve lab notebooks on OWW.  In the next couple weeks, we'd
like to have a brainstorming session to collect ideas from the community.
We need to find a suitable time for this session.  If you are interested,
please go to the above link, add your name to the list, and vote on your
preferred time:

*	Thursday October 4, Noon Eastern Time
*	Friday October 5, Noon Eastern Time

Also please post any suggestions about the meeting format.  You can post
questions on the wiki page, or email to sjkoch at unm.edu.

Thank you!

--Steve Koch
 http://openwetware.org/wiki/User:Steven_J._Koch 




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From jasonk at MIT.EDU  Thu Sep 27 20:36:57 2007
From: jasonk at MIT.EDU (Jason Kelly)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:36:57 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] SC Meeting Thursday (10/4) @ Noon EST
Message-ID: <7c085c480709271736l6f0763efk576b327cdd005f28@mail.gmail.com>

hey SC,

Reminder that the SC meeting is coming up on the 1st TH of the month
(10/4) at Noon EST.

Chairs fill in your reports here:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee/Meeting_-_October_2007

Please add items to the agenda:
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee_next_meeting

Or take a look at action list from last month for left over to-do items.
http://openwetware.org/wiki/OpenWetWare:Steering_committee_actions

Number is 617-324-7520, and austin can send out details for people using sip.

Thanks!
jason


From jasonk at MIT.EDU  Fri Sep 28 16:34:52 2007
From: jasonk at MIT.EDU (Jason Kelly)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:34:52 -0400
Subject: [OWW-SC] TIME CHANGE 1-2PM (10/4) SC meeting
Message-ID: <7c085c480709281334l5055ebd0tb5061d0f65321c11@mail.gmail.com>

Hey folks,

Due to scheduling conflicts with the tele-conferencing at MIT we need
to bump the meeting forward 1 hr.  So it will be 1-2pm EST on 10/4
(TH).  Let me know if this time is a problem for you.

Also, Bill has been cranking on some new features (RSS feeds & new
user page generation) that could use some feedback so please check out
the links he'll be sending out soon and we can discuss at the meeting.

Thanks!
jason