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<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif;color:black">Classification:
<b>For internal use only</b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I can agree with you on most points. The only problem I still see is the point between the illegal access to the database
and the discovery of this. In this timeframe access & refresh tokens can be heavily misused. The reduction of this risk is only by the timeout of each token which can be very long for refresh tokens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I don’t really see why the lookup is easier by value than by id? The even bigger question is: why the need to look them
up anyways, since their JWTs? Only to verify if they got revoked? The JIT should be enough here, right?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I can see that secrets can’t be stored as hash with symmetric functions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I understood the following:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">the change from token value in the database to only use JIT should work for ID, Access & Refresh Tokens<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">the secret needs to be available unhashed but can be encrypted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">the auth code has anyways only a hard coded timeout of 5 mins and is only an OTP therefore could stay at is,
but it should be OK has hash aswell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Beste Grüße / Kind regards,<br>
Dominik Schmich<br>
<br>
</span><a name="_____replyseparator"></a><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Justin Richer [mailto:jricher@mit.edu]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 14. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dezember 2016 02:47<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Hutton <chris.hutton@callsign.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dominik Schmich <dominik.schmich@db.com>; mitreid-connect@mit.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mitreid-connect] Storage of Tokens in DB [I]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It’s all possible, but it isn’t something we’ve put a lot of effort into. Why not? Well if the DB tables are stolen, you’ve got some serious issues anyway. Unlike user passwords, where hashing and salting are a very good idea indeed, these
are all randomly generated high entropy values that are designed to be rotated relatively easily. Getting a user to pick and use a new password is a huge friction point. Getting a client to configure a new secret or get a new token is almost assumed by the
protocols. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tokens don’t really need to be stored as-is, though it’s simpler that way to do the lookup. And the truth is that if your database is stolen, you’d want to rotate everything anyway even if it’s hashed, for the simple reason that someone
got their hands on your DB and you shouldn’t trust that it wasn’t manipulated. The good news here is that because it’s not user passwords, those secrets won’t be usable outside of your AS.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Furthermore, some operations do need the client secret available in its original unhashed form. Namely: dynamic client configuration management (unless you want to rotate the secret on every read/update), and the client_secret_jwt authentication
methods and HS* token signing mechanisms. All of those need the client secret as-is to function and won’t work on a hashed value. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> — Justin<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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