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I was not making a generalization. I stated a fact that both sides engaged and
are engaging in warfare. Who "started it" is of no consequence. To portray one
side as peaceful and the other as brute aggressors is misleading, and indeed for
naive ears. The fact that one side was swiftly defeated does not mean it has preference for dialog--perhaps after the fact, as that is an easy choice to make. I highlighted this not to get a "faulty point"
across, but to reinforce what I stated above. <br><br>Also, I would like to
remind you that I am not taking sides. I'm neutral and honest in saying neither
March 8 or March 14 are capable of promoting good governance and
nationhood. I would never vote for either block.<br><br>In all of your critique of my friend's quote you make the
assumption that March 14 are a government. March 14 are not a government; March
14 are sect leaders. Lebanon has no government and has no president. Lebanon has
sect leaders. <br><br>There are fundamental problems afflicting Lebanon that are
far more pressing than HAs telecommunications network, and in their resolution an easier way may emerge to disarm HA and remove other obstacles to the state.<br><br>March 14 are not the reason Syrian occupation
ended. The people are. The politicians of March 14 do not own the events of the
"Cedar Revolution ". In fact, if anything, they sold it during the first
election post Syrian hegemony.<br><br>And I disagree: Very little progress has been made. We still have corruption, poverty, economic crisis, no president, no electoral
law, economic woes, etc... only now we are free to be corrupt without asking for permission first.<br><br>Finally, yes, HA has a violent record. And so do the dinosaurs of March 14, even if they "love life."<br><br><br><blockquote><hr>Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:05:54 -0400<br>From: antonio.tamer@gmail.com<br>To: abitdodgy@hotmail.com<br>Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] Four Days that changed the Middle East<br>CC: patrickz@mit.edu; dimanajjar@gmail.com; lebanon-articles@mit.edu<br><br>Please allow me to remind you Mohamad that the actions of one handful of angry (and obviously enraged) people do not make for a generalization.<br><br>This kind of reference to war atrocity does not necessarily grant you immediate access to one's ears - except maybe the naive and unexpecting. I've seen the videos and am appalled by them, but this tactic of yours is not very ethical - ie, to appeal to one's humane and sensible side in order to get an unrelated (or faulty) point across.<br>
<br>Let's look at what you said:<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">"a semi-government that lacks the representation of one of Lebanon's
major sects, whose legitimacy and constitutionality are seriously
questioned,<br></blockquote>As far as I remember, the opposition (HA) resigned from the government. Also, HA is disrupting llife in every single day. The government may not be the best one to have ever been around(trust me, I have concerns about where it is leading Lebanon), but it is definitely better than what Syria had in place at the time it retreated.instead of normal participation, we see this detachement and frustration at the increased political (oh and peaceful, despite that atrocious reference of yours) success of March 14 and the government. To be able to kick an occupying and terrorizing country (syria) out like that with just demonstrations and organizations, that is impressive.<br>
<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">in the heat of daily Israeli threats of a new war on HA and Lebanon<br></blockquote>If I remember well, the provocations have been coming from HA's side, not Israel. The warmongering and drums of waar have been one-directional (until HA's provication of Israel in July 2006). In what could've been Lebanon's best chance of peace, the lebanese (in all arrogance) declared victory when Israel pulled out of most of Lebanon. And let's leave the shibaa farms out of this debate, there is no Shibaa farms until Syria - an ally of HA - decides so. Oh do you see here the sole justification for HA's persistance??<br>
<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">weeks after the assassination of HA's military commander<br></blockquote>Let me remind you that this happened in Syria and the so-called commander is labelled terrorist elsewhere. I suggest you dig up some bio.<br>
<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">against the advise of the army command<br></blockquote>Army command? What advice? The army is there to protect, not dictate. I surely hope you're not hinting at the idea of a military authority, and if you indeed are, could you remind me of the last military regime that YOU think was successful? In either case, the lebanese political system surely was not designed for this kind of army command nonsense. No thanks!<br>
<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">in the absence of a president and in its final dying hours<br></blockquote>This, we all know, is due to the increasing irritation of HA and Aoun's bloc to achieve any single political victory. Instead, they refer to disruption of life, armed attacks and assaults as well as demanding to be given rights (no, it's VETO) beyond what is reasonable or acceptable.<br>
<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">takes the unprecedented step of outlawing HA's communication network, fully aware of the sensitivity of the issue<br>
</blockquote>This, I may agree with you on except I never saw any governmental decree or national consensus (without "sisterly" pressure) that HA has been granted the right to establish a communication network. As far as HA's weapons, well this story is settled. at least for me. I'm sorry if I won't go in that dirty path of changing your perspective on what you should well be aware of at this point. <br>
<br>So having chopped up your friend's brilliant quote, I ask you: What about it?<br><br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;" class="EC_gmail_quote">
Finally, at risk of offending people, none of Lebanon's
traditional parties ever preferred dialog had they a to use violence.
The illustrious history of our political class and 18 years of butchery
by the same people who rule today speaks for itself...<br></blockquote>I completely agree with you on that one - those in power have a strong history of violence, that's true. But can you see some positive change at least? Can you see that the pro-gov camp is not willing to fight? granted, there are a couple of MK's in the mountains, but that is just tradition and/or dinosaurs from the civil war. Just to keep things in perspective: HA <u><b>has</b></u> a history of violence, and persistence of violence, and has been exclusively targetting civilians in Israel, Lebanon, Germany and South America without one single <u><b>noble </b></u>military victory. This is disgusting.<br>
<br><div class="EC_gmail_quote">On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 8:42 PM, Mohamad El-Husseini <<a href="mailto:abitdodgy@hotmail.com">abitdodgy@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="EC_gmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
Patrick,<br>
<br>
I would be remiss not to direct your attention to a graphic video the contents of which I advise against viewing. If you are not familiar, it captures the gruesome torture and murder of 10 SSNP members in Halba. In addition to being tortured as they took their dying breaths, their limbs were hacked and their bodies left to the disposal of their murderers, who wasted no time indulging in gratuitous gore. Not only is this reminiscent of what happened in Nahr El Bared, but it should cast a doubt on the theory that one side prefers dialog to the other.<br>
<br>
I condemn HA's actions, and their use of force was criminal and irresponsible. But it has not gone unanswered, even if the balance of power leans heavily to one side: the route of government partisans is not indicative of their preference for dialog. They were over-powered. <br>
<br>
To quote a friend, "a semi-government that lacks the representation of one of Lebanon's major sects, whose legitimacy and constitutionality are seriously questioned, in the midst of internal turmoil, in the heat of daily Israeli threats of a new war on HA and Lebanon, weeks after the assassination of HA's military commander, against the advise of the army command, in the absence of a president and in its final dying hours, takes the unprecedented step of outlawing HA's communication network, fully aware of the sensitivity of the issue."<br>
<br>
<br><br>
Finally, at risk of offending people, none of Lebanon's traditional parties ever preferred dialog had they a to use violence. The illustrious history of our political class and 18 years of butchery by the same people who rule today speaks for itself...<br>
<br>
The war never ended, it was just bandaged and the binds are loosening once more.<br>
<br>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 15:26:44 -0400<br>> From: <a href="mailto:patrickz@MIT.EDU">patrickz@MIT.EDU</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:dimanajjar@gmail.com">dimanajjar@gmail.com</a><br>
> CC: <a href="mailto:lebanon-articles@MIT.EDU">lebanon-articles@MIT.EDU</a><br>> Subject: Re: [LCM Articles] Four Days that changed the Middle East<div><div></div><div class="EC_Wj3C7c"><br>> <br>> Rima,<br>
> A quick comment on the fresh view you mentioned.<br>> First, I had a chance to listen to Rami Khoury talk at the Kennedy School of<br>> Government at Harvard last year, and I have to say that Rami is very much a<br>
> Hizballah apologist. While he tried to portray himself as neutral and discuss<br>> both sides of the conflict, it was very apparent what his political sentiments<br>> were.<br>> As such, I would very much take the article with a grain of salt. While<br>
> Hizballah did achieve a military victory of some sorts, I believe that it lost<br>> something much more valuable, the respect of all non-shiite Lebanese who now<br>> see it as an instrument of Iran, Syria, and Shiite dominance.<br>
> I believe the government made a key decision not to deploy its opwn gunmen or<br>> the Internal Security Forces (ISF) who number in the 10,000 and are <br>> composed of<br>> mainly Sunni and Christian. That would have put a strong counter attack to<br>
> Hizballah, at the expense of starting a new civil war. Fortunately some (i.e.<br>> NOT March 8) are still committed to the principles of negotiation through<br>> dialogue, not violence.<br>> Where this will take us, I don't know. While this is part of a U.S. vs. Iran<br>
> power play (as the Hizballah likes to portray it), it is also an Iran <br>> vs. Saudi<br>> Arabia play (Shiite vs. Sunni) and another effort by Syria to remain relevant,<br>> regain influence in Lebanon and retain its tool of applying pressure on Israel<br>
> to get the Golan's back.<br>> Let's be realistic when we talk about this situation. It's about people with<br>> guns who don't want to give up their guns, and want to be the big boys and the<br>
> bullies of the block.<br>> I welcome your thoughts and opinions on the matter!<br>> ciao<br>> Patrick<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> Quoting Dima Najjar <<a href="mailto:dimanajjar@gmail.com">dimanajjar@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> <br>> > A fresh view..<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > Click the following to access the sent link:<br>> ><br>> > Four days that changed the Middle East<br>> > <<a href="http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10" target="_blank">http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10</a>><br>
> ><br>> ><br>> > Or copy and paste the following link in your browser address bar:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > <<a href="http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10" target="_blank">http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10</a>><br>
> ><br>> > <a href="http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10" target="_blank">http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?article_ID=91914&categ_ID=5&edition_id=10</a><br>
> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > *<br>> > *<br>> ><br>> > *Abstract:*<br>> ><br>> > Events in Beirut and other parts of Lebanon continue to move erratically,<br>> > with simultaneous gestures of political compromise and armed clashes that<br>
> > have left 46 dead in the past week. The consequences of what has happened in<br>> > the past week may portend an extraordinary but constructive new development:<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>
> > Dima Najjar<br>> > +97150 413 4343<br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Lebanon-Articles mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Lebanon-Articles@mit.edu">Lebanon-Articles@mit.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles" target="_blank">http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles</a><br><br></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Antonio Tamer.<br>508 361 5943
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