<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>FACT: Your so called demostration that "dwarfed" the opposition had Syrian buses and Syrian workers all the way from Syria carrying Syrian Flags! (see photos) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>FACT: it's true a lot of the voices were not friendly with Hariri in the past, and actually a lot of the voices were on the complete oppsite side of the spectrum during the Lebanese war, BUT WHY ARE YOU MISSING THE POINT AND ENGAGING IN POINTLESS ARGUMENTS? </DIV>
<DIV>You and I both agree : <STRONG>The Syrians (Military and intelligence) need to get out of Lebanon because enough is enough.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>FACT: We are not supposed to all agree with each other in order to have a free country! On the contrary a true Democracy is one that fosters a "Multitude of ideas" per John Miller.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So, As long as we agree that Syrians took enough of our country then all else is fine!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Peace! and May we have a Lebanon for the Lebanese and not for the Syrians.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Sleiman Itani <ssolomon@MIT.EDU></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Do you want something illogical? It is you thinking (or even claiming)<BR>that the mou3arada represents the Lebanese people. Another illogical<BR>thing: LBC which used to try to prove that Hariri is the spawn of<BR>Satan,and that he is destroying the country to get money; now is<BR>praising him and saying that he was the only hope of Lebanon. (Think of<BR>a reason why they would do that-lie in one of the two cases-: Maybe<BR>because they don't really care about Lebanon!!!!)<BR><BR>Don't get me wrong. I actually look down at the Syrian regime, probably<BR>more than any other regime in the world (since Saddam is down now.)<BR><BR>Fact: The Hizbullah demonstration literally dwarfed the over-grown ego<BR>of the mou3arada. "7attit inno2at 3al7roof". It said to those who claim<BR>they represent Lebanon:" You are not the majority, not even close to<BR>representing half of the Lebane!
se
people." If you don't believe me, read<BR>the Times. Use your mathematical skills to compare the number of people<BR>and your great logic to know what democracy and majority mean.<BR><BR>Fact: The politicians on the mou3arada's side will probably be more<BR>corrupt than the government that we have (which is saying a lot since it<BR>is very f**** up.) So now 3oun cares about Lebanon and not a certain<BR>sect. You have to have a negative IQ to believe that.<BR><BR>Fact: This discussion by itself proves that we Lebanese don't agree (you<BR>might need some time to really understand this, but: We don't agree, and<BR>that might be a good thing- if we were cultured human being who respect<BR>the opinions of others.)<BR><BR>So please respect other people's ideas and don't think that you are the<BR>only form of intelligent life on Earth (or from Lebanon). I have some<BR>news for you (sit down, this might be shocking): Even you might be<BR>wrong. So please respect other people's opin!
ions even
if you don't agree<BR>with them.<BR><BR>Take care and keep smiling, you're Lebanese.<BR><BR>On Sat, 2005-03-12 at 21:03, Maurice Hage-Obeid wrote:<BR>> Thank you for replying adequately to such a weak, illogical, and<BR>> unfounded email.<BR>> <BR>> Maurice Hage-Obeid<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> At 05:51 PM 3/12/2005 -0800, Jessy E. wrote:<BR>> > With all due respect:<BR>> > <BR>> > (1)<BR>> > it's such a conspiracy theory statement to say that the UN is<BR>> > "unofficially and virtually a US operated organization". The reps of<BR>> > over 50 countries who met in 1945 to put together the U.N Charter<BR>> > were not brought together by your so called "unofficial" U.S<BR>> > organization, they were brought together for an ideal (maybe too<BR>> > ambitious if you want) to achieve and work on international peace<BR>> > and security, yes they may have failed at times, but they are still<BR>> > looked at!
as an
unbiased body. Do not forget the U.N resolutions<BR>> > condemning Israel for the many atrocities against Palestenians--The<BR>> > U.S always vetoed and Israel always declined voting-- And so the U.N<BR>> > was always looked at as a body that at least attempts to put things<BR>> > back in persepective-- We look up to the U>N because they at least<BR>> > have a security resolution that demands the Syrians to leave Lebanon<BR>> > and if it weren't for them none of the Arab countries would dare say<BR>> > such a thing in public.<BR>> > <BR>> > (2)<BR>> > The thousands of young men and women sitting in Martyr square are<BR>> > not holding signs that say "U.S in" they are holding signs that say<BR>> > "Syria out". So why in the world whenever for once we stand up to<BR>> > ask for something that is our absolute right, all of a sudden we are<BR>> > accused of inviting foreign intervention to a !
"sister"
country? so<BR>> > I really do not see the link here, as for your question why do we<BR>> > seek outside help if we really believe in Freedom and independence?<BR>> > Well that's because my fellow Lebanese if we did indeed learn<BR>> > anything from history that will be that our week quasi-Syrian<BR>> > government will never stand up to Syria and if we get the help of<BR>> > the international community to claim our rights then you know what?<BR>> > By all means, I would a zillion times rather get the help of the<BR>> > Americans to kick the Syrian out, then to stay for another 30 years<BR>> > under occupation with a so called Lebanese Government that does not<BR>> > even consider that we are under Syria's occu! pation and it repeats<BR>> > to us the stupid, cliche, ignorant claim that "Syria is our sister<BR>> > country". Nobody is asking for military intervention, nobody is<BR>> > asking for anot!
her
occupation, if anything the demonstrations taking<BR>> > place are the most peaceful we have ever seen, apart from the<BR>> > "ignorant few" who carried guns in Tripoli and those ignarant other<BR>> > few who were photographed with knives and tattoos of the Syrian<BR>> > president during the demonstration called for by Nasrallah.<BR>> > <BR>> > Here are a few questions for you to seriously think of:<BR>> > <BR>> > Our bad economy? Syria plays the lead role in it. Do you forget the<BR>> > BILLIONS of dollars Syria makes from Lebanon every year just by<BR>> > maintaining its grip over us? <BR>> > <BR>> > Did you ever wonder WHY IN THE WORLD does Syria not maintain an<BR>> > Embassy in Lebanon? Did you ever wonder Why Lebanon does not have an<BR>> > embassy in Syria? How in the world can two countries not maintain<BR>> > diplomatic ties with each other unless there is no respect to the<BR!
>>
> sovereignty of the coutries? I'll tell you why, Syria has ALWAYS and<BR>> > WILL continue to consider Lebanon a part of its own, and until it<BR>> > realizes that we are very far from being Syrian, it will refuse to<BR>> > maitain diplomatic ties by having an official embassy in Lebanon.<BR>> > <BR>> > And about the Batrak not taking the Sheikh with him to the<BR>> > U.S?????????? I'm sorry I didn't know they are supposed to escort<BR>> > each other on official visits!!!! since when does the Batrak have to<BR>> > let the Sheikh know "hey buddy wanna catch a flight to the U.S with<BR>> > me?!!" I am sure if the Sheikh desires a trip to the U.S then<BR>> > nothing would stop him, there shouldn't be any pouting I would<BR>> > think!<BR>> > <BR>> > (3) It really is uncalled for to poke fun at the fact that pple<BR>> > prayed in their own way and brought candles to show unity and<BR>> >
support. This was and is the most spontaneous act that all the<BR>> > Lebanese have ever engage in that your remarks serve nothing but to<BR>> > undermine the will of people who felt so enraged at what happened<BR>> > they decided to do something about it instead of staying home and<BR>> > bitching about it. <BR>> > You may think they are wasting their time downtown but to the whole<BR>> > world they have written history and pessimist views like your own<BR>> > have never and will never serve Lebanon.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > saad mneimneh <SAAD@ENGR.SMU.EDU>wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Hi everyone,<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Some of you might remember me, I was active in the Lebanese<BR>> > Club at MIT<BR>> > <BR>> > few years ago.<BR>> > <BR>> > In light of what is happening, I would like to say a few<BR>> > words about the<BR>> &!
gt;
<BR>> > situation.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ... And just to put everything into perspective, I am Muslim<BR>> > Sunni for<BR>> > <BR>> > those interested in knowing.<BR>> > <BR>> > But I consider myself to be really Sunshimarorthodruzy.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Few points:<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > (1)<BR>> > <BR>> > The consolidation of lebanese people around one cause "A<BR>> > free lebanon"<BR>> > <BR>> > is a very shallow one. A majority of "leaders" in this<BR>> > movement did not<BR>> > <BR>> > like Hariri to begin with. But we Lebanese like so much the<BR>> > concept of<BR>> > <BR>> > leaders... If fact, we are the leaders... of anything... Now<BR>> > let's drop<BR>> > <BR>> > this fact and say that this is ok because, well, Hariri is a<BR>> > human being<BR>> > <BR>> > after all and h!
e is one
of us, and what happened is so<BR>> > major... and<BR>> > <BR>> > what's wrong in finding a common ground f! or all of us to<BR>> > stand on? Very<BR>> > <BR>> > good. So we want independence, freedom, and all these nice<BR>> > things...<BR>> > <BR>> > And we are together... Excellent... So we call USA and UN<BR>> > (which is<BR>> > <BR>> > unofficially and virtually a US operated organization) for<BR>> > help and we<BR>> > <BR>> > sing the French National Anthem! Contradiction? Noooo of<BR>> > course not, who<BR>> > <BR>> > can dare to say something like that...?<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > (2)<BR>> > <BR>> > But not to worry, as I said, we have Leaders... Let's just<BR>> > follow our<BR>> > <BR>> > Leaders... Fortunately or Unfortunately, we are the leaders<BR>> > in the whole<BR>> > <BR>> > universe in
implementing the concept of divide and<BR>> > conquer... except<BR>> > <BR>> > that we implement it for others on ourselves....And very<BR>> > willingly and<BR>> > <BR>> > easily too... Why do we always seek outside "help" if we<BR>> > truely believe<BR>> > <BR>> > in freedom and independence. I don't think we really know<BR>> > what we<BR>> > <BR>> > believe in... And haven't we learned from history that<BR>> > countries like<BR>> > <BR>> > USA care just about an epsilon about the people of the<BR>> > middle east? Or<BR>> > <BR>> > maybe we do not consider oursel! ves part of the middle<BR>> > east, because<BR>> > <BR>> > Libnan Ya It3et Sama! Do we not have a vision? Do we want to<BR>> > kick Syria<BR>> > <BR>> > out no matter what the cost is? And why not distinguish<BR>> > between the<BR>> > <BR>> > Syrian regi!
me and
the syrian people...? Maybe they are not<BR>> > human beings<BR>> > <BR>> > like us and suffered as much as we did? Let's put our hands<BR>> > into the<BR>> > <BR>> > hands of Bush... His is a cool cowboy... Me must identify<BR>> > with him so<BR>> > <BR>> > that the world will look at us as modern.... Let them bomb<BR>> > Syria if they<BR>> > <BR>> > refuse to leave... Let them destroy the oldest city on<BR>> > Earth, like they<BR>> > <BR>> > did to Bagdad.... Let them make the Syrian people suffer, as<BR>> > if we do<BR>> > <BR>> > not know anything about suffering...! Is this what we really<BR>> > want? Syria<BR>> > <BR>> > out? maybe yes, but USA in? definitely NO!<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > (3)<BR>> > <BR>> > Consolidation.... I don't think that was consolidation in<BR>> > any way. The<BR>> > <BR>> > y!
oung
generation does not know much about the history. In<BR>> > fact it was so<BR>> > <BR>> > confusing that even old people do not really understand what<BR>> > happened...<BR>> > <BR>> > The youn! g poeple woke up today, for them the war is maybe<BR>> > centered<BR>> > <BR>> > around few things, like the syrian presence in lebanon. They<BR>> > know some<BR>> > <BR>> > names from the past, they heard their parents talking<BR>> > about... They<BR>> > <BR>> > often confuse past and present because those names are still<BR>> > the same...<BR>> > <BR>> > They think they know the history... Well they definitely<BR>> > know elissa,<BR>> > <BR>> > nancy, and hayfa... and few other stupid things... They know<BR>> > the $$ not<BR>> > <BR>> > the LL, they know how to speak English and French, not<BR>> > Arabic... They<BR>> > <BR>> !
> know
how to jump around on bicycles in downtown...<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > "Yes, we young lebanese really like to go to Downtown, and<BR>> > we are<BR>> > <BR>> > experts in wasting time, so we might as well participate in<BR>> > this "war",<BR>> > <BR>> > why not if we can achieve peace, and hey bring some candles,<BR>> > and by the<BR>> > <BR>> > way why not also pray each in his own way... wow that looks<BR>> > cool and<BR>> > <BR>> > nice... let's do it often.... we are now united...! How<BR>> > about we go and<BR>> > <BR>> > listen to hayfa after we are done with this demonstration?"<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Ar! e we united? Of course we are, this is why the Batrak<BR>> > goes to USA<BR>> > <BR>> > alone without the Sheikh? Now who truely believes that we<BR>> > are united? I<BR>> > <BR>> > wish we are.<BR>> > <!
BR>>
> <BR>> > (4)<BR>> > <BR>> > And what is this concept about people who love lebanon and<BR>> > people who<BR>> > <BR>> > don't? So for instance, and speaking in general about<BR>> > ordinary people,<BR>> > <BR>> > why would anyone in lebanon not love lebanon? Well yes<BR>> > sometimes we<BR>> > <BR>> > don't love that country in the sense that<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > "F*** this economical situation where I cannot raise my<BR>> > family, or F***<BR>> > <BR>> > this educational system where I cannot compete with the<BR>> > developed world,<BR>> > <BR>> > or F*** this pollution covering the city, or F*** this<BR>> > traffic that<BR>> > <BR>> > holds me for hours in my car, or F*** and F*** and F***"...<BR>> > Now does<BR>> > <BR>> > this make me a hater of lebanon?<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> &!
gt; 100%
of what I predicted happened: The goverment will<BR>> > resign, another<BR>> > <BR>> > almost identical one will emerge.<BR>> > <BR>> > Not a surprise... The names are the same since 30 years ago,<BR>> > and we,<BR>> > <BR>> > lebanese people, like the concept of leaders... What do you<BR>> > expect? just<BR>> > <BR>> > a regular guy or girl from the street to become president or<BR>> > minister...<BR>> > <BR>> > WOW! WHAT A CONCEPT!<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > saad.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > <BR>> > Lebanon-Articles mailing list<BR>> > <BR>> > Lebanon-Articles@mit.edu<BR>> > <BR>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
__________________________________________________<BR>> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>> > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > Lebanon-Articles mailing list<BR>> > Lebanon-Articles@mit.edu<BR>> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ______________________________________________________________________<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Lebanon-Articles mailing list<BR>> Lebanon-Articles@mit.edu<BR>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/lebanon-articles<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><p>
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