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<div>Hi Martha, I don't have answer for your question. I return discussion to ECCO support, and also include Daria in cc, in case someone else has advice for you.</div>
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On May 1, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Martha Buckley <<a href="mailto:marthabuckley@gmail.com">marthabuckley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the replies. It seems that all the ECCO products use the 0.8C density equivalent.
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<div>The reason I am asking is that I am calculating predictability timescales for temperature integrated over the maximum climatological (e.g., wintertime) MLD for a variety of different ocean data products. I am trying to be as comparable as possible between
products in the definition of MLD, but the MLD definitions for the products varies wildly (e.g. 0.4 kg/m^3 for ECDA and 0.8 C for ECCO v4). The question is whether the most comparable approach is to apply the same criteria to all models/data (using for example
monthly output) or whether there is a better approach. </div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div>Martha</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Wang, Ou (329B)</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Ou.Wang@jpl.nasa.gov">Ou.Wang@jpl.nasa.gov</a>></span><br>
Date: Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:43 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [ecco-support] ECCO Mixed Layer Depths criteria<br>
To: "ECCO support list, wider membership" <<a href="mailto:ecco-support@mit.edu">ecco-support@mit.edu</a>><br>
<br>
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>The same default parameters were used for ECCOv4:</div>
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<div> hMixCriteria = -.8 _d 0</div>
<div>
<div> dRhoSmall = 1. _d -6</div>
<div> hMixSmooth = 0. _d 0</div>
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</span>
<div>The criteria of the density equivalent of 0.8C is applied to the model profiles at the model time step. </div>
<div><br>
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<div>Ou Wang</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a href="mailto:ecco-support-bounces@mit.edu" target="_blank">ecco-support-bounces@mit.edu</a>> on behalf of "Menemenlis, Dimitris (329C)" <<a href="mailto:Dimitris.Menemenlis@jpl.nasa.gov" target="_blank">Dimitris.Menemenlis@jpl.nasa.<wbr>gov</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"ECCO support list, wider membership" <<a href="mailto:ecco-support@mit.edu" target="_blank">ecco-support@mit.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Monday, May 1, 2017 at 10:19 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"ECCO support list, wider membership" <<a href="mailto:ecco-support@mit.edu" target="_blank">ecco-support@mit.edu</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [ecco-support] ECCO Mixed Layer Depths criteria<br>
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<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
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<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Don’t know what criterion was used for ECCOv4
<div>For cube92, the default parameters were used:</div>
<div><br>
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<div>
<div>C hMixCriteria:: criteria for mixed-layer diagnostic</div>
<div>C dRhoSmall :: parameter for mixed-layer diagnostic</div>
<div>C hMixSmooth :: Smoothing parameter for mixed-layer diag (default=0=no smoothing)</div>
</div>
<div> hMixCriteria = -.8 _d 0</div>
<div>
<div> dRhoSmall = 1. _d -6</div>
<div> hMixSmooth = 0. _d 0</div>
</div>
<div>C-- First method :</div>
<div>
<div>C where the potential density (ref.lev=surface) is larger than</div>
<div>C surface density plus Delta_Rho = hMixCriteria * Alpha(surf)</div>
<div>C = density of water which is -hMixCriteria colder than surface water</div>
<div>C (see Kara, Rochford, and Hurlburt JGR 2000 for default criterion)</div>
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<div><br>
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<div>See model/src/calc_oce_mxlayer for other options.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Another available definition (when using KPP scheme)</div>
<div>is KPPhbl, which is the “mixing” layer depth.</div>
<div>The daily maximum of KPPhbl is a very good proxy for</div>
<div>mixed layer depth most places, except seasonally-sea-ice-covered and polar-winter regions.</div>
<div>(Kara’s criterion is also problematic for polar regions, which tend to be salt-stratified.)</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On May 1, 2017, at 9:50 AM, Martha Buckley <<a href="mailto:marthabuckley@gmail.com" target="_blank">marthabuckley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">One follow up question regarding mixed layer depths in ECCO.
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<div>What is the criteria for the variable "MXLDEPTH" in the ecco v4 product. I think I recall being told it is the density equivalent of 0.8C. Two questions:</div>
<div>(1) Is this the criteria that was used? It the criteria applied to model profiles at the model timestep?</div>
<div>(2) If so, isn't this criteria a bit large? 0.125 kg/m^3 or 0.5C seem common MLD criteria when applying criteria to monthly-averaged data. However, criteria that are smaller (~0.03 kg/m^3 or ~0.2 C) are typically applied when using raw observational
profiles. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I know that the MLD criteria is somewhat arbitrary, but I want an idea of the rational for the chosen criteria. </div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div>Martha</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 6:04 PM, HONG ZHANG <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:hong.zhang@ucla.edu" target="_blank">hong.zhang@ucla.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<th align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE" nowrap="">Subject: </th>
<td>Re: [ecco-support] ECCO2 Mixed Layer Depths Concerns</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE" nowrap="">Date: </th>
<td>Fri, 28 Apr 2017 12:48:59 -0700</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE" nowrap="">From: </th>
<td>HONG ZHANG <a class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hong.zhang@ucla.edu" target="_blank">
<hong.zhang@ucla.edu></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE" nowrap="">To: </th>
<td>Dimitris Menemenlis <a class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dmenemenlis@gmail.com" target="_blank">
<dmenemenlis@gmail.com></a>, Moisan, John R. (WFF-610W) <a class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john.r.moisan@nasa.gov" target="_blank">
<john.r.moisan@nasa.gov></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE" nowrap="">CC: </th>
<td>Daria Halkides <a class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:halkides@esr.org" target="_blank">
<halkides@esr.org></a></td>
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<div class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600moz-cite-prefix">On 4/28/17 9:37 AM, Dimitris Menemenlis wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">Daria or Hong, would you have looked at MXLDEPTH depth in the “cube92” solution?
<div><a href="ftp://ecco2.jpl.nasa.gov/data1/cube/cube92/lat_lon/quart_90S_90N/MXLDEPTH.nc/" target="_blank">ftp://ecco2.jpl.nasa.gov/data1<wbr>/cube/cube92/lat_lon/quart_<wbr>90S_90N/MXLDEPTH.nc/</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div>John, why not use the ECCO-V4, which is data-constrained?</div>
<div><a href="http://www.ecco-group.org/products.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ecco-group.org/prod<wbr>ucts.htm</a></div>
<div>ECCO v4 is on a 1-degree grid, which is closer to your desired 2x2 degree grid.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>Dimitris Menemenlis </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Apr 26, 2017, at 9:41 AM, Moisan, John R. (WFF-610W) <<a href="mailto:john.r.moisan@nasa.gov" target="_blank">john.r.moisan@nasa.gov</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="m_5519096872955125841m_-7993531269458287600PlainText">Hello ECCO2’ers,<br>
<br>
I would like to make use of the Mixed-Layer Depth model outputs from the global model runs 1992-present (Nov. 2016) to drive some simple 1D biogeochemical models for CDOM. I have binned to model outputs from the jpg site into monthly 2x2 deg. grids. One thing
of concern that I have is the trends in the global MLDs (see attached figure), which are more extreme in the SO. Is there an issue with maintaining correct ocean boundary layers, esp. in the SO for this model? Has this been observed yet?<br>
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<font size="2">Hi John,<br>
You're right, MLD from cube92 run has bias in late stage<br>
because it's a free run for the later period.<br>
As Dimitris said, you can look at other ECCO product provided at the website.<br>
Please see attached fig showing MLD from ECCOv4 and ECCO llc270 for an example,<br>
where red line is for ECCOv4 (1992-2012) and blue line for ECCO llc270 (2001-2015) in upper plot<br>
also MLD for cube92 is also shown in lower plot for reference.<br>
</font><br>
cheers<br>
Hong<br>
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